AsleepAtTheWheel, I hope you didn't view my remarks as bragging--I usually never bring up her academics at all unless it relates directly to a topic we're discussing. Truthfully, I was being a little defensive, since I got the impression that sarsdad's post which directly followed my earlier post was perhaps assuming academics and a sense of the "Big Picture" are being shortchanged somehow in my daughter's life. I mainly was trying to show that the realities of life after dance are being considered even as she follows her dream.



With the above ingredients, your daughter has a lot going for her. Those exceptional academic students you know have much less going for them if they lack creative thinking, a good work ethic, and can't carry on an interesting conversation.

Balletmom

I certainly mean no disrespect to any member of this thoughtful board - certainly not Balletmom. If offense was taken, please accept my sincere apology! As my daughter has slowly moved of her own accord from one definitely wanting a professional career in dance to more of a recreational dancer (she still does not close the door and takes 8 classes a week) my wife and I have had to respect her decisions. Perhaps my motivation for my post was that I have seen some parents who faced similar situations after years (even a decade) of sacrificing family times, personal time, work time, and yes money; only to find out that this was a hobby (a beautiful and deeply fulfilling hobby) and feel that THEY had been betrayed. I have actually heard a parent describe a child's decision to step back from classical ballet after 12 years of training as "something he did to me." It is clear from the intelligent thoughtful posts on this board that no parent here would feel this way - I will admit however that it is hard not to, and important to stay firmly gounded on the fact that this is the child's life, and they need to be given a broad array of options so that at the proper level of maturity, they can make the right decision for themselves.

Balletmom, I was not aiming my post at you or really anyone else. I was feeling a little defensive as well and tired too, more snappy than usual. It's been a source of frustration to me that many people I know feel that their kids have to be the best at everything. For most, this is just not possible. The pressure we put on our kids, in this current generation, has been tremendous. We all have high expectations for them, who cannot? Afterall, they are our children, the best and brightest we have to offer the world! It's then best to accept their limitations, encourage their interests and then let them go off into the world each day and see what transpires. DD's interest in dance is her 'thing', her interest, her joy. I hope people will not concentrate on her lack of ability in say, math, and instead see what else she has to offer.

Sorry, this thread has gotten off track with my comment.

Asleep, I know how you feel - Kait was NOT a good student. She is bright and capable, but had absolutely no interest in school, and still refuses to even consider college - if the dance career doesn't work out, she'll do something else, but nothing that requires an academic degree. I, too, got a bit tired of defending her choices (once I accepted them myself, which admittedly took a while) - she's just A Dancer. Not currently an employed dancer, but a dancer.

Gosh! Hasn't this conversation taken off while I've been away! I have to say, when I wrote this post I was having a particularly crappy week - hating my own job and wondering what happened to the creative side of my life which gives me so much pleasure and satisfaction, but which I now seem to have no time or energy to do as I'm so busy working at something I'm good at but don't necessarily want to be doing. You get the picture.

There have been so many different and interesting points of view expressed. A couple of comments struck me particularly.



I thought this was very well stated by sarsdad. As adults, it seems we focus on limitations. Children focus on possibilities - after all, how often are our children told as they are growing up "everything is possible - you can be whatever you want to be". So as parents, knowing that our young dancers may not indeed have what it takes to become professionals, knowing that they may face limiting injuries, knowing that they may completely change their focus and decide on an alternative career path, we ensure that the doorways are left open to allow other choices to be made in the future. But we outwardly give our dancers support to pursue their passion!

Going back to the original post on this subject - that does not mean that while they express a desire to become a dancer they should have to deal with constant negativity. On the one hand society says "you can be whatever you want" but in reality we are saying "as long as it's not being involved in the arts because that's all a bit too hard".

I also related to asleepatthewheel's post:



My dd had a lot of difficulty keeping focussed in school and completing written work, so her teacher (when dd was eight) asked the psychologist to test her for learning difficulties. Her teacher said she was an absolutely delightful person and a lateral thinker, who could recite back what she had learnt, but was a 'poor producer' when it came to completing written work.

The results came back and showed that had an IQ of over 130 and was actually classified as being gifted - with no learning difficulties! This being said, she continued to have problems completing work (basically she is just a social butterfly who loves to talk more than she loves to work )and does not have strong academic leanings. She does however, have an amazing ability with ballet. This is where she excels and it is what she loves the most in life.

In ballet she has developed self-discipline and focus - and she is now learning to also apply these skills in the school classroom. In ballet she has learnt to set personal goals and to achieve them each term - and she is now starting to do the same at school.

So, in our household she gets absolute support for ballet, Mum and Dad deal with the realities and keep other doors open and to the rest of the world, we now say "cobblers"!

I can identify with that--and my family can attest to it, I'm sure.

No offense taken, sarsdad or AsleepAtTheWheel.

Sometimes the various replies to a thread are so disjointed, it's easy to misinterpret--someone may be replying to something several comments above, but in a quick reading I don't catch it.

Sorry about getting us offtrack! This is a good topic, though, and one we all face at some point or another. I think if someone continued to question me about my daughter's career goals re:dancing, I would tell them that all children need to find their own paths in life, and discover exactly what it is that will bring them fulfillment. If they stumble a bit, or make what we may consider poor decisions, well, it's a learning experience on the road to maturity.

Just adding that this is not always so easy--but I'm trying!

Back to the original post - I didn't have a answer for this, because no one ever, that I can recall, gave us any grief about our daughter's career goals - our families, her school teachers, and our friends all thought that the fact that she wanted to be a professional dancer was something special and exciting. I never realized how lucky we were in this respect. (Plus, our son at one time wanted to be a professional musician, so we had two with performing arts goals.)

Interestingly enough, some of her friends thought that she should take the more conventional college route, but our friends were very supportive.

I believe like sarsdad that we do have to temper this with reality. My son once asked me if I thought he could be a professional dancer and I was honest with him. I told him he had the physical facility, body and looks but I wasn't sure that he had the drive, ability to deal with rejection and perseverance needed to make it in ballet. It isn't just the best dancers that get the job. Sometimes its the ones that don't give up, keep trying, have a great attitude and spirit that shines through are the ones that walk away with the prize. (he did get an paid apprentice contract this year and I am thrilled for him)

I've also know of parents that when it became clear that the child was not principal material that they stopped supporting ballet. I asked the Mom what was her daughter’s goal, would she have been happy in the corp for a few years before going off to a "real job"? It was top of the pecking order or no support for the parents so the decision was made. I often wonder if the daughter will live to regret her decision, she had been offered a contract and turned it down.

I've know dancers that are amazing technicians with no spirit who go from job to job and other will less natural talent that bring so much joy to the stage that the directors love them and don't let them go.

It is hard to tell at 12 or in my case ds was 15 which direction to send the child. Boys are a little easier since they usually don't physically change as much as girls during the teen years and don't have to wear the dreaded point shoes.

I do believe in being honest without being negative. I don't think you can ever go wrong there. You may be the best at your school but there are so many schools and so many good kids that they have to understand what they are up against.

One thing that I did was let him talk to some of my friends that were professional dancers for many years so he could get some insight into what the future would look like if he took that path. That kept the you don't know anything Mom factor out of it so that he would hear the message. He was 15 and they have a hard time hearing anything they don't want to hear at that age. That being said all school work had to be done even if it was in the car going back and forth to dance class. There always has to be a plan B just like we should always have an updated resume!

Wow, this is longer than I thought it would be.... sorry

A little bit of levity, but also off topic (sorry)

"after all, how often are our children told as they are growing up everything is possible - you can be whatever you want to be".

If selected a career in response to this that was much more challenging to reach. In kindergarten when I was asked this, I proudly reported that I wanted to be a monkey when I grew up.

Funnily enough, calamitous, I said I wanted to be a man when I grew up!!!

I gotta ask -- did either of you succeed?

Moving on ... or back ... do you think that when people make negative comments, they are reacting to the scarcity of jobs? The probability of finding employment as a dancer is so much smaller than so many other professions. It's like saying, "I plan to be the best of the best of the best." That's a tall order to fill.

No I didn't become a man! Fortunately I decided along the way that it was quite nice being a woman!

Yes, some comments regard the scarcity of jobs, but others regard the high risk of injury, the long term damage to the body that can occur and the low incomes.

While there are no guarantees that all of our young dancers will be "the best of the best of the best" I can give a 100% guarantee that if they don't try they definitely won't make it!

I support my dd 100% in aiming to make her dreams come true and I'm not naive, I'm not stupid and I don't walk around with a paperbag over my head. Since the age of five, every teacher, her AD and independent assessors have stated strongly that she has the potential and ability to make it if that is her desire. We have been told that she has "an extraordinary ability well beyond her years” (her AD) and from an independent assessor "a beautiful sense of artistry in all her work and a spark that constantly brings the eye back to her”. I include these quotes not because I’m a ‘Diva Mom’ (okay, well perhaps I am just a teeny weeny bit), but to demonstrate that our belief in her is not blind and has good foundations, that are being re-stated strongly every year. Her studio is small but is highly regarded and has produced a number of very fine professional dancers, including principals and artistic directors (such as Ross Stretton who is now in the US I believe).

Also, I know my dd very well - I know how strong her desire and dedication are, I know how mature her approach is, I know how determined she is. I know that she loves ballet more than anything else in her life (except for her Mum and Dad of-course ). And there is something indefinable (which I haven’t experienced with our other children), and I know this may sound silly to some people, but it's like she was born to dance – so I see ballet as a natural progression in her life.

And if something happens along the way and she doesn't make it or no longer wants to dance, I'll still be supporting her 100% and I'll probably still be ranting on the Ballet Talk site!!

No, unfortunately I did not achieve my dream of being a monkey. I remember some amount of dissappointment when it was clarified that the - you can be anything you want when you grow up- refered to JOBS! Yuck.

I did become a gymnast - a year or so ahead of Nadia -so I looked good. And my DD does roll-on-the-floor funny imitations of gibons, chimps, gorillas and other apes.

More seriously
We have encouraged our DD, who is now 13 to pursue what and who she is. She is adopted and one of the things I find most wonderful about having an adopted child is my role as a parent, as I understand it, is to truely let her unfold as she is supposed to. I don't have to look for signs and skills that reflect me, my family or my husbands. We know nothing about her biological families - so we can only ever encourage her to do is to discover for herself (and us) who she is. And she's a pretty remarkable soul!

Along those same lines, my daughter is my stepdaughter who I have adopted. Although it is easy to see that she has her biological mom's (and family's) artistic ability and my husband's fabulous dancer body (although he is not a dancer), what is been remarkable is to see what I have been able to contribute.

I don't want to stir up a nature v. nurture argument but since I have been her mom for 10 years...she has picked up the some good (and bad) from me.

She told me last month that she knows that she would not have found the drive to keep working and set goals and stay focused without my help. I have a different role to play in her development as a person and it is great.

It is probably helpful that I never danced and I am frequently amazed at what the girls do. I am so blessed that I have been able to help her along to her dreams and I am still trying to fiqure out how to ignore the doomsday people.

I actually think most people don't know enough about ballet to even consider the scarcity of jobs, etc. I live in a community where people come out in droves to watch the competition cheerleading squad and little girls spend 20 hours a week training for cheerleading scholarships to college, but no one wants to go to the ballet. My husband and I have season tickets to the local theatre (a quite reputable one, I might add) and we can rarely find anyone who wants to use the extra pair of tickets we order.

I really don't think people even know that being a professional ballet dancer is a real job. I think they think someone choosing ballet would be avoiding growing up. Then you throw in the whole complication of 'to go to college or not' and people really can't digest it.

Over dinner my husband was bragging about DD's acceptance to her SI, while also complaining of the expense. The other husband asked, "Why would you pay that for ballet. To what end?" People would never question the point of football camp or cheerleading camp, and neither of those activities lead to careers very often.

I am constantly amazed at the comments people make to DD about her choices and our choice to support her in alot of areas. DD handles it well in public but her private comments............hmmm. I on the other hand am to the point I get a bit "snippy". My DD has a plan. A strong plan A and a strong plan B and a slight Plan C. That is more than MOST of the kids her age I know. People need to give her a break.

I am however, thankful for those whose parents taught them to take a deep breath before speaking. Generally, those people, who may not like our answer take that deep breath and then say something positive such as: "If my parents had supported my desires, I too would have done something artistic. You are truly a blessed child."

vj

My son learned the "just smile and nod" technique when he was about 12--there is often no other response, and he was able to shrug things off with a smile that way.

momof3darlings' last paragraph really hit home with me! While I want others to support my daughter's dreams (however far-fetched that may seem to them), I'm not sure I have always returned that courtesy to the children of my friends who have had dreams that seemed rather 'out there' to me.

When my college roommate's son finished highschool via correspondence and went off to NYC to seek his fame and fortune as a screenwriter, I thought she was nuts for funding the venture. At age 20, he just sold a screenplay to Touchstone Pictures and finished two scripts for HBO.

My cousin's son's dream is to be a rock star. I keep pushing instead for him to pursue that orchestra contract for the string instrument for which he has so much talent. At 20, his band just won Billboard Magazine's contest for best new bands in the US.

My point here is that we all have our biases and it is very easy to look at the choices other families are making and think (hopefully to ourselves and not out loud) that we cannot believe that they are allowing their kid to follow some wacky dream. The two examples I cited happen to be success stories and so it is much easier to admit that I might just have been wrong in my judgement about the paths they chose.

This whole discussion has reminded me that I need to be as tolerant of the 'paths less travelled' that others choose to take and that I know very little about, as I want them to be regarding my daughter's own journey, about which they know very little. When others are not as tolerant as I would like, I need to remind myself that the road less travelled is often viewed as dangerous or fool-hearty by those who don't happen to be on that same path!

Hello!
I am not sure whether it is appropriate for me to post in this forum, because I am not a parent, but I just happened to read this thread and some of the posts almost brought tears in my eyes.
I just want to say how happy I am to find out that so many parents support their children's desire to dance professionally or to follow some other kind of arts-career.
I had never had this kind of encouragement or support from my family, even though I was (as I am told and as as far as I can remember) a very creative kid with lots of imagination. I was interested in writing and theater in particular, but there was no way for me to persuade my parents that I should follow my inclinations. Instead, I was sort of "forced" to become a lawyer and I became one...The result is that after 10 years of studying very hard , I earn very little money (being a female lawyer who is not at all fond of the profession and doesn't run after job opportunities, doesn't pay much). I have an ok job that pays very little money and one of the few things I am looking forward after work is my ballet class. I don't mean to complain, I am just saying this as a response to the first messages: becoming a lawyer or a doctor or something of the kind that doesn't make others wonder what your option b is (as some people on this thread very correctly observed), does not necessarily imply that you are going to be successful or rich let alone happy. I am almost 30 years old and even though I don't have kids, I think I am mature enough to know that the most important, fullfilling and therefore "successful" thing you can do with your life is to follow a profession that you love, as trivial as this may sound. How there are people who believe that forcing a child to be something the child never wanted is completely beyond me.

Thank you for letting me share this with you..

elie, your post was VERY appropriate for this thread! You've gone through so much pain , but are using it to help others in the same situation. Thank you!

Elie,
Your experience is a priceless addition to this thread. Thank you for sharing and please, follow your dream now. It's not too late...

Clara 76

Someone further back suggested that you lived in Canberra. Does your daughter happen to go to the National Capital Ballet School? This is the school I started as the Bryan Lawrence School of Ballet in 1968. It is now run by an ex student.
Everyone is getting very angry about this subject and blaming people for knowing nothing about ballet. It amazes me that people expect others to be knowledgable about something that just doesn't interest them. I agree that there might be a lot of stupid remarks made but you don't have to listen to them. I know that these people can really get your back up but they would probably argue unintelligently in connection with any subject. I don't think it is just the ballet subject. We have to try and cut off from these people. It is not right that they should be able to control our feelings. I have similar unpleasantness when I try to have a sensible discussion about life and yes, I do find it very difficult to keep calm.
However, I would like to say that if it is possible, it is only wise to have something else up your sleeve in case things go wrong and also for the time when you have to stop dancing. This can be a very traumatic time for some ex dancers.
Anyway, I wish your daughter all the best. If she has been told she has talent then she should just go for it with determination and confidence.

*edited by moderator to remove large quotes from previous posters*

Hi Bryan - yes, she is at National Capital with the gorgeous Kylie - and I actually attended the Bryan Lawrence school back in the 60s, upstairs in the studios at Dickson and recall classes with yourself and Janet.

I agree that we can't expect everyone to understand - as I said, my original post came at the end of a particularly crappy week where I was also questioning why I am in my current job as it is certainly not what drives my passions in life.

My dd will continue to dance and will also continue academically. We don't have a plan B at this point, but this will come with age. Dd has a Plan A, which is more than many children/young adults have. We have an 18 year old daughter who still doesn't know what direction she wants to take and here's me in the 40s still trying to work out what I want to be when I grow up!

I think people do this to children who are focused and passionate, whatever their calling. My son has been on the science track since - quite literally - age 2. He's now 14 and in college part time, and we still get comments about how poor his handwriting is, how he's not good at sports, about how we're damaging him by allowing him to be exposed to college aged kids so young.

A lot of people just plain don't understand passion, drive, and ability, least of all in a child. I like the "whatever" response... we can't change them, and they (thank God) can't change us! Cling to the supporters. My son has a list, only half jokingly, of the places he'll turn down speaking engagements when he wins his Nobel prize...



Juli