I am getting totally fed up with negative comments being made regarding my daughter's desire to become a dancer!!

Yes, she is young (soon to be 12) but she has wanted to be a dancer ever since I can remember and has been extremely firm about this since she was eight. She is now in a vocational progam (six hours per week plus rehearsals) and every term her passion and interest increases. Her ballet teachers consider her to be a student with "enormous potential".

This week, I have been relayed comments made by dd's music teacher that she should consider another career as "ballet ruins your body". My dd's take on this was, that as the teacher believes she has ability in music, she would like to see her replace ballet with playing an instrument.

Dd's school teacher expressed concerns at the parent teacher interview last December that we appeared to be placing ballet ahead of academic learning. This is NOT the case, but we do support her desire to dance. I spoke with her teacher yesterday and she asked how things were going in regard to dd auditioning for the Australian Ballet School next month. During the conversation she made several comments including "as long as she doesn't put her all her eggs in one basket"; "as long as she keeps her options open" etc.

I am absolutely positive that if dd had expressed a desire to become an archeologist and was spending her weekends going on digs, no-one would make similar comments.

They wouldn't ask her what 'option B ' was; wouldn't point out the high risk of injury (after all you could fall down a trench); wouldn't say "tsk, tsk, it's very competitive you know - you might not make the cut - what if you don't make it?"; wouldn't say "well, archeologists don't earn much money you know" and we wouldn't be asked as parents why we "let" her spend so much time dancing or why we spend so much money where dance is concerned as there is no guarantee of success.

I often get the feeling that 'others' believe it is better to not try at all if there is the slightest risk of what they perceive to be failure. For some reason this week has been the straw that broke the proverbial back - and we have years to go!

How do I get others to see it from a different perspective and should I even try? I'm getting tired of being put in positions where I feel we have to justify the choices we are making.

Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you for giving me a place to vent!!!!

I just tell people that everyone is different. We all are not cut out to be doctors and lawyers. Some of us were never cut out to even go to college. Oh my, did I say that?

The point is, my son and everyone's child who works so hard and sacrifices a major portion of their childhood to work on a potential career (dance, sports) should not be looked upon any differently than a kid who spreads themself thin being in every club at school, class president, etc in an attempt at popularity that will get them nowhere in life.....however, nobody ever says anything about those kids and what their future holds.

All I know is a person should be given the opportunity to try. How many adults walk around saying "I really wanted to be _____, but because everyone told me I would never make it or because I would starve, I stopped trying." I don't want my kid to be one of those people. By the time he is college age, he should know whether or not he is good enough for a career in dance. He can make the switch at any point in his life. How many 60+ year old grandmothers do you hear about on the news who have graduated from college? I've heard several of those stories. It is never a bad time to follow your dreams. Some people just don't wait a lifetime to do it. My kid is not a couch potato playing video games and watching tv. Doesn't that say something?

This tactic doesn't work very well in the US, but in places where British-based slang is prevalent, it's been known to have some effect.

When a well-meaning, but dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks-about-ballet conversationalist starts to bring up alternative careers other than that horrible ballet dancing, "We need doctors, lawyers, architects...." Smile sweetly, lean forward, look into their eyes and say, "Cobblers."

For the speakers of American, this is a rough equivalent to Gen. McAuliffe's answer to the German Commander at the Battle of the Bulge upon being called upon to surrender: "Nuts."

danceintheblood,
This has recently been a frustration of ours, and dh and I have decided that people are really not interested in debating the issue on a logical basis or have discussions about comparisons to other forms of training (ice-skating/gymnastics/hockey). People generally just want to let you know you are allowing your child to follow the wrong path - bad parent, etc..
I guess these people really can't be expected to understand something they have not experienced.

We do not try to win approval anymore - we now just treat the comments lightly and smile and make positive comments like "Wouldn't everone love to have a chance to follow their dreams", "It's beautiful to see a person with such passion", " Wouldn't we all love to look back and have no regrets" - and if I am really mad... "She's lucky...Wouldn't we all like to have a talent/gift we could pursue to its potential - anyone would be foolish not to."

Being positive and smiling with confidence usually halts the negative comments. Refusing to take the defense has made me feel better because in my heart I know we are doing the right thing.
(Next time, I will add "cobbler" under my breath and smile even bigger )
Lily

In the US, and maybe in other places, the kids have had the perfect comeback for those sorts of statements, and this comeback has been around for quite a while now, there may even be others more suited but...

when others make statements of the sort you described in your post above, simply say....'whatever....'

and move on, either in the conversation, or just move on. It makes no sense to dwell on such things. Even my parents are still making comments like that to dd, it was made at her last DR appt by her dr, but dd just smiles and nods and doesnt change her mind or probably even listen anymore. she knows the story, has her back up plan, and that is that. People can, and do, say whatever pops into their heads. We dont have to listen.

It's a waste of time and energy to try and change their minds, so, knowing that, it's a waste of time and energy to let it bother you or your daughter. Just feel sorry for the poor closed minds, and carry on!

Danceintheblood, our dd is 12.5 and we've gotten the same thing. Some kids just really know what they want to be when they grow up. They feel the calling. If things change later on adjustments can be made. I wonder if we have a larger percentage of underemployed adults now than before the phase "oh, you have plenty of time to decide what you want to be when you grow up". That quote may be appropriate for a future doctor, but after age twelve a child doesn't have plenty of time to get the training necessary to be a professional dancer. When friends were dumbfounded that we would up and move to support our dd's ballet training, I replied to one "If you knew your child could be an Olympic contender in skiing would you move to Vale, CO?" Well, the light went on and they "got it". Sometimes I'll explain that dancers retire from dancing exclusively, earlier than other professions and that she'll have plenty of time for a second career afterward. Bottom line some kids just know. I wonder how many of the people who say those types of comments also say in other situations "follow your bliss". That may actually be the best response.

It really is amazing to me how ignorant people are about the ballet world. When I tell people that dd is dancing professionally, they say things like, "So, she's just doing this for fun, right? When will she stop and go to college?" or "So, does she go to school during the day and then dance at night?" or "So, does she actually get paid to do that?" and the list goes on. It's as if a career in dance is fluff, not a worthwhile profession and not worthy of a salary. I don't try to explain anymore. I used to say that she is going to take some college classes on her off time, etc. (which she is), but now I don't think they deserve an explanation. I usually just say, "it's her chosen profession" and walk away. I am not going to try and defend our position by going into a long tirade about how pursuit of the arts is a noble profession, where would we be without art in this world, etc. If they are that stupid, they don't deserve a response. Mel, from now on I will repeat the mantra in my head - "Cobbler, cobbler." Thanks

danceintheblood, it seems like from this thread and the other one you just started that you're maybe at that point where the ballet world is "a little too much with you." You're looking for validation in all the wrong places -- it can only come from within you. Take a break, go wander around that wonderful Royal Botanic Garden that we miss so much there in Canberra, stuff your face at the Hudson's with one of those friandes that we also miss so much, and just relax.

We get the same spirit of comments concerning homeschooling that we get about dance. If it is made to you, ignore it, if it is made to yuor daughter, have the discussion with her that other people are not who make her life decisions and teach her to ignore them also.

Trying to be thoughtful here, not just playing devil's advocate, so nobody shoot me.

In some ways, *I* don't get careers in the arts, either. I have friends who are children's entertainers (singers and story tellers -- high level, Grammy- winning -- but not highly paid, of course), and authors, and others sorts of expressive beings. I do often have the feeling of "you get paid to do that???". Rationally, I know that they fulfill a societal function every bit as important as the doctors and lawyers and plumbers and, yes, cobblers. But emotionally, it doesn't compute. I'm not even sure why. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

I have the same issues with careers in professional sports, but since they are so highly compensated the reasoning is clearer.

My reply touches on both the original post and Treefrog's post.

I guess I've been more lucky than many of you because my family and the schools my children attended have supported my daughter's aspirations all the way. When my mom was alive, she was tremendously proud of her graddaughter. But mom came from a family of musicians, artists, and avid social dancers. My grandfather was a European Olympics winner during WW1 and he sang opera. My family is accustomed to people finding their own way in the arts world. My friends are also, by and large, artistically creative people so they too support such aspirations. And my kids went to Montessori schools where they were surrounded by other creative kids and families.

My husband's family was the true test but because he grew up as an Irish dancer and opened his own school, they were somewhat used to the idea. His mom died before my kids were in high school so we never got to experience her opinion. We can only imagine. Hid dad, however - bless his soul - a man who had never been to a play and who knew nothing whatsoever about the non-Irish dance world till his granddaughter came along, adored everything about it. He was thrilled to see his granddaughter perform and thrilled that she found something she loved so much. Before he died, he expressed much hope that she'd make a career in that world because she loved it so much.

I think, Treefrog, that our upbringing is often what determines our attitudes towards a career in the arts (or sports world, for that matter). I know that you grew up in an academic-minded environment and that your parents had firm beliefs about what sorts of work held value. So do you think that could be a contributing factor to how you view a career in the arts?

As a teenager, people surrounding me died abruptly. My boyfriend died in his sleep at age 17. The rest of my high school friends died in a fire (The Gulliver's fire in Port Chester, NY - some of you might remember it). I learned right away how fragile life is and I think that realization has colored my life ever since. Life IS short! I want the ride to be fun and to have been spent following my heart. I want the same for my kids. And that's how I've responded to the very few people who have expressed their reservations about a life spent in the arts.

What a wonderful post. I completely agree with you Jacki, that life is too short. I also believe that a child has the right to decide what there future holds. I am merely here to help her realize her dreams by advising and supporting her.
It isn't my life and it isn't my dream. My parents were older when they had me and were a product of the depression era. Thier views on life were vastly different than mine are now. The same goes for my children. I have never forced my children into college, into a particular career or pushed them in any direction. They are all successful individuals who are very happy and content in their lives. I am a proud mother who can sit back and enjoy watching them enjoy life. Yes, education is important and I have always been adamant about doing ones best. (not necessarily good grades) but letting a child find their way and decide their own future is up to them, not me. I am not going to be here forever and when it is my time to go, I want my kids to be happy and content in the life they chose for themselves, not something that was forced on them because it was a direction I pushed them towards because it was a "better" direction to go. I would never want my kids to resent me for taking away or discouraging thier dream because it didn't fit into my definition of success.

I think a lot of people's response comes from simple fear. Fear that there is not enough "pie" to go around, that "you just don't get to do what you want in life". So many people have had this fearful way of thinking drummed into them from such an early age that they have come to think of it as the only mature or sensible way of thinking about a career in the arts. They also do not realize that although many, no, most of our dds and dks will probably not get to dance as professionals, there are many peripheral careers in which their dance training will be invaluable. Still, as some may know from my previous posts, I, like Vagansmom, come from a family in which the arts is what we do, in one form or another, so we always had it in front of us that a life in the arts IS possible. You may not get rich, but you will be enriched, that is for sure.

It also depends on what kind of life you think is important. If you care about having a guarantee that you will have two cars in the garage, own a big, beautiful house, clothes, gadgets, social standing and power, well, then maybe ballet, or any art, ISN'T the way to go. But if you care about having a rich, interesting life, awake to the spectrum of emotional, artistic experience, one in which you may be able also to help others appreciate the beauty and preciousness of life, I say, GO FOR IT!!

Final thought: Diderot classified art as that which inspired awe. Awe in the old-fashioned sense, as an almost holy, spiritual thing, not as in "awesome". Would these people say, "but what good is it studying THEOLOGY? Your son/daughter wants to be a PRIEST/RABBI/IMAM??? There's no money in it!" For dance, along with song, were the first spiritual arts.

Bless them, for they know not...much about it!

knock knock
Oh, it's the mom, I have friends with a daughter just finishing college who would be _delighted_ if she were employed in a field for which she has a passion.

How about
"well, it's true that a dancer's career doesn't last forever, but I / we think she is so lucky to be able to work in a field that she loves so much. After all, how many people are able to do that?"

A word about "cobblers" as a retort. It is always plural, for like "nuts" it has a curiously anatomical alternative meaning. But think about it, how many shoe repair shops do you see anymore? And how many shoemakers who do custom work? We have an independent artisan, Danielle DeVor, right here at Ballet Talk for Dancers. Supply and demand makes shoe trades a niche market and CAN be highly remunerative. It's a lot different from the days when John Trumbull would ask his art students if they'd ever considered shoemaking as a line of work!

Good reply, Koshka. I have the added challenge of saying that my ds really wants this a career. Oh boy, you should see the looks I get at that.

As with many of you, our experience with those that "don't get it" is quite extensive. We were lucky that a good friend involved deeply in the business of ballet gave us a "heads-up." early on. She told us at that time that our friends would never understand and that our families would be appalled at our choices at times. I believed her, but I still can't understand how it can get worse and worse each year. (But it does, ESPECIALLY with the family, both immediate and extended).

All I can encourage you to do is to hang in there, and be proud of your daughter and her choices and accomplishments. This path is so much easier for her if her parents are supportive when others around are not.

My mother was one of those who were appalled by the amount of time dd spent at the studio and furious that we would take her out of "regular" school to do independant study so she could get to her dance on time and train a bit longer. She thought we were nuts to spend that kind of money on training and "what were you thinking" when it came to sending her off to her first SI at 12.
Now....my mother cries when she sees her granddaughter dance, brags about her accomplishments, has her dance pictures all over the house, was upset when we decided not to send her to an SI this year and was thrilled to hear she is going to one now. Is debating if dd should attend "regular" school because of the pressure school and homework will have on her with her dance schedule and is actually for her going away to train in a couple of years away from home to help her become a professional dancer!
So, don't be so quick to judge those who don't agree. Give them time. You can lead a horse to water....and sometimes they might just take a drink.

koshka, I think you've hit on it:

I think anyone who is able to work in a field they love has found one of the greatest rewards in life.

It's not family we have trouble with, for they accepted the whole thing once they saw dks dancing. We have been very fortunate to have family members that are very supportive. It's just the general public and yes, even some long-time friends. I realize that not everyone is exposed to the ballet world, but I can't imagine saying to someone whose child was pursuing something he/she loved, "Well, when will he/she get a real job?" I don't even want to start the conversation on what they've said about my son dancing. We've had plenty of threads on that issue. The good thing is that all of that is erased when I see my kids dance. The joy on their faces alone makes it all worthwhile.

danceintheblood,

I happen to be one who does believe in the adage of "not putting all of one's eggs in one basket"; however, life is long, we follow a direction and if and when we need to, we go in a new direction. I don't find anyone outside of our ballet world, including family, who understands the necessary committment, the field, the possibilities, the limitations... really none of it. I discuss DDs ballet with very few people. They know we have practice, or maybe that a performance is coming up. We invite teachers and best friends. But because I really don't ever feel like defending our family's descions, I try not to put myself in the situation of needing to.

Thankyou for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me. To address a few comments:

Dd attends a Steiner school which has a philosophy of nurturing the individual and encouraging creativity - so the response of her teacher has been unexpected and contrary to what I may have expected;

Members of my family have had careers in the arts or have been very much involved in them as amateurs - I am lucky to have family who are reasonably accepting of careers in the arts;

Dd generally uses the "whatever" approach accompanied by a shrug of the shoulders, but she was offended by comments made by her music teacher on more than one occasion. Dd's comments to me on this were "how would she feel if I told her to stop playing music when that's what she loves?"

Dd's (dd is the baby of four girls 18, 20. 24) older sister (age 20) declared at eight that she was going to be a human rights lawyer - she is now studying law and works in foreign refugee camps in her breaks - we NEVER had to deal with negative remarks regarding her choices (and she was never asked what Option B was!)



Current circumstances dictate that I am more heavily involved with dd's ballet at the moment than would be usual. This is her first year as a vocational student and her approach is changing - while she loves it and has fun, she has also become far more serious and determined about setting goals and making improvements. Dd is coming to me several times a day, wanting to show me new steps or how she has improved in something or simply wanting to talk about ballet. She no longer walks from one room to another at home, but pirouettes or throws up a quick arabesque as she walks through a doorway - she is never still!!

She has just been in her first competition (see thread on competition!), is soon attending her first masterclass and will be also attending her first audition in early June. Rehearsals have just begun for the annual production ( I am assisting in making costumes) and classes have stepped up another gear.

I don't think I am seeking validation - dd is asking me to become involved in her world by being interested and supportive and I am trying to understand her world to the best of my ability.

knock knock--

I just have to add a thank you for seeing what your daughter wants to be and believing in it.

I think this is again a testament to the fact that even those of us who support the arts do not ask ourselves the hard questions: Is art necessary to human beings?
Can we survive without it?

The short answer to both is:Yes.

Yes, we can survive without art. We do not need art to clothe us, give us air to breathe, or shelter us. However, art is necessary to us as human beings. Would we have the technological and humanistic advances we have to this day without it? NO. The following is an excerpt of a letter I wrote to various government officials. This is something I am passionate about:

The arts, in all forms, are crucial to humanity, for the need to create, is uniquely human. Art is thus what civilizes and inspires us. There is no separation of a technologically advanced peoples and a thriving support of the arts.

One has only to look to the past to see that the need to create does more
to advance a population than anything else. Albert Einstein took violin lessons. The eccentric genius, Leonardo Da Vinci, had the good fortune to be raised in the city of Vinci, Italy; long a painter's haven. Is it an accident that Leonardo created on paper flying machines that except for want of proper materials would have meant human flight in the latter 1400's?

Usage of the arts in educational settings has been proven to increase
learning capabilities in all children. I am certain that all major advancements in humanity can be traced back to the arts.

The arts serve a dual purpose- that of both the culmination of
inspiration, and the inspiration itself.

I'd like to take a moment to dispel the myth that one who isn't wealthy is underachieving or unintelligent. The value of jobs that are not typically high-wage is immeasurable. If they weren't, we'd all be millionaires living amongst our own trash.

So to all those naysayers, I just smile and shake my head slowly...there's no point in trying to open a mind that chooses to remain shut. Feel sorry for them, and help your beautiful dancers to do whatever they most want to in their heart of hearts. Living well is the best revenge!

Clara 76

I know that a career in the arts is difficult, but I also know so many people whose children excelled in high school and then burned-out out in college. Or finally got that expensive degree at the exclusive college and decided to be a paramedic or ski instructor after all. Nothing is a sure thing. And I think it's the amount of hard work and money that goes into any career choice that makes people scared and so they lash out at anything that looks more vulnerable than their choice. There is no guarantee, no matter what path you choose, that you will get the career you wanted, or that it will make you happy.

And what if nobody pursued the arts?. What would a world be without any dancing, music, paintings, films, literature, etc.? What if nobody took a risk? Then we would be without all the scientific discoveries and the inventions that make the world a better place. Here's to all the people who are willing to take a risk, and venture out into the unknown.

Wow! Thanks Clara 76.

Thanks Clara76. That was beautifully expressed.

In the late 19th century, social philosophers had pretty much settled on the Big 3 of Basic Vital Needs for human survival -- food, shelter, clothing. One of them, however, in the early 20th century, supplemented this list with "Basic Nonvital Needs". It was quite a list and included "cutaneous stimulation"! People shake hands and kiss and hug because they NEED human touch. Hands and lips have lots of nerve endings in them, and hugs stimulate a lot of nerve endings just by encompassing a lot of area. (Can you imagine what would happen if there were lots of nerve endings in the elbows? It would ALWAYS be rush hour on the subway or the crosstown bus!) Anyhoo, one of these Basic Nonvital Needs is communication. That artists choose to communicate in their "languages" is hardly surprising. Don't you think that discriminating against communication in a different language is somehow ethically wrong? If one does not satisfy the BNVN in some way, one will not stop living, but may demonstrate depression, anxiety, or other psychosocial infirmities.

When I was sixteen. all the girls in my year at school had to attend "careers" interviews with the headmistress. One girl in my class said she wanted to work in the theatre as a stage manager, and then patiently sat through ten minutes of arguements that it's such a hard field to get into, and narrow are of opportunity, etc. Eventually the headmistress asked her why she thought she'd like to do it. "Because I've been ASMing for the National Youth Theatre for the last three years" was her reply.

Ballet may be a hard career to get into, but someone's got to succed and with talent, hard work, support from you and good teaching, it could just be your daughter. One thing's for sure though - she won't succeed if she gives up.

Jane

This is true.

Essentially, I think people mean well when they say what they do about our daughters and sons pursuing a career in dance.

It is "a hard life."

But really, life is tough anyway.

Dance is a dream, an aspiration and a serious goal for my daughter.
My husband and I are there for her 100%.
Now and possibly for more years than "normal" for many children.

The joy that she receives, the joy that she gives other, the healing that comes from the art of dance makes it all worth it.

I just say to people that I know it is going to be a tough life, but she loves it. We are going to support her in continuing with her education as well. This will provide her with the ability for a second career if she so chooses.

As long as she has a roof over her head, food to eat, clothes to wear, a studio to train in, and a stage to perform on ---- what else will she need.

I am ready and going into this with my "eyes open" thanks to all of those naysayers that have so graciously made me look at this rude reality hundreds of time.

I hear the mother of a 26 year old dancer looking for her third job in a company. A mother who oftentimes needs to buy food for her daughter's refrigerator. I understand that an apprentice gets paid between $200 and $400 per week, if that. I realize that a dancer gets a contract for one year with limited benefits. I understand that the competition never stops and that you can get yanked from your part at any given moment. I know that a dancer's body takes a beating.

Okay. Okay. I know these things.

But it doesn't change my mind to continue to support my daughter in her dream. I wouldn't think for a moment to dissuage her. She loves to dance. We love watching her dance. Onward and Upward we go!!!!!!

I am in complete agreement with all of you - my daughter has heard some fairly obnoxious comments regarding her passion for dance. As I have rarely posted, I will also again state that my daughter is moving away from the professional track at 14.

Having said these things and at the risk of igniting war, while people's comments are often poorly phrased (even if well intentioned) there is a germ of truth in what your daughter's teachers said. She should maximize all options. We have known children who were completely convinced that classical ballet was their world at 12, and at 14 decided to take other directions. If for example, major exams constantly take back seat to an extra class or rehersal, this can sometimes be made much harder - not undoable, but much harder. While I don't countenance their lack of attempt to understand lives in any way different than their own, the hard truth is children change their minds for a complex set of reasons. For example, my daughter after puberty has a body that while it will not preclude professional classical ballet it would likely hamper the career. Even at the prepro level, seeing less talented dancers get better parts because of the AD's view of how a scene should look can go a long way to changing a young dancer's outlook.

This may well never happen to your daughter. Even if it did, she may prefer to dance in a small regional company than not at all. I think my daughter is leaning toward serious dance through college, but being the most graceful attorney around. She has made choices all the way through that preclude no path.

Best to all,

Steve

Very well said, sarsdad!

For one more perspective...

I number of weeks ago I ran into a woman who taught my DD's Sunday School class when DD was 14. This neighbor has had a long awaited baby who has an inoperable brain tumor and she was filling me in on 40+ days in the hospital but the happiness that she has that her daughter was still alive at 2 years when she should have died in her infancy.

She asked for an update on my DD and I sheepishly told her about the driving and classes and worries about company auditions....I apologized for complaining about a life that is so much easier than a life with a terminal child.

She stopped me and tearfully explained that the greatest joy that she has and her only "escape" is art. She told me to never let our daughter stop because her dance can touch the soul and allow the audience to escape our cruel world...for a time.

I have thought about her a lot and I am glad that my DD's passion is what can comfort her. It is great to have one supporter in the crowd of negativism.

On this note, while we have always supposted our son's passion for dance, we have always insisted on a plan b,c, etc. He will probably have the dance career he wants, but bodies break and get old. He has maintained academics and limited outside interests, because a well rounded person is a happy person,IMHO. Just because a person's passion is dance, they still can and should maintain interest in the rest of the world around them. ** i was referring to sarsdale's post**

In the first decade of 20th century, Maria Montessori introduced her "Fundamental Needs of Humans" program. She divided them into two categories: the material needs and the spiritual needs. They are inseparable, she said. Included in the spiritual needs are art, religion (not necessarily organized religion though) and communication. Montessori believed that we can't satisfy the material needs 100% without including the spiritual needs.

A good example is defense. Yes, we need to defend ourselves against potential invaders but the danger would be lessened if we used our spiritual side to find and express the commonality we all share. Art, as just such an expression, is then not just an extra but an imperative.

Kind of off subject. My daughter told me last night that she couldn't get through her struggle with school without having dance as a release. She is trying to find a balance and has found working gets in the way of her studies but she still needs those few hours at dance to clear her head. I am trying to convince my husband to support this but if he won't I'm off to the job market and he can cook and do his own laundy .

I also occasionally get strange looks (and more) from people, including DH (who bless his heart tries, but just can't get "it"), regarding my unwavering support for my daughter as she works towards a career in art. However, I've seen and experienced first hand the unhappiness that can come from suppressing the desire to be an artist, whatever the art form. Mel's and vagansmom's posts explain it a lot better than I could, but in some people it is a need that while non-vital to survival is vital to living a satisfying life. I don't come from a wealthy family, but the need to create and an underlying value for the arts runs deep.

My grandfather was a photographer before he married and settled into farming as a way of supporting his family. Since he died before I was born, I don't know if suppressing his artistic side caused him any anguish, but I do know he ended his own life by means of a gunshot while in his middle years. My own father has expressed that he always wanted to be a visual artist, but instead worked many years in an office job that he hated, and now battles depression in his later years. I can't say if there is any connection with the choices he made (or the chances he was given--he never received any art training) in his early years, but he was always supportive of both me and my sister in our artistic endeavors and would often brag to others about our achievements in this area. He is now my daughter's biggest supporter and says his dream is to see her dance in NYC before he dies. (I can't bring myself to tell him how slim her chances are.)

I've said it before, but I majored in art in college but decided to pursue a "real" job when I got out since I wasn't cut out to be either a teacher or a commercial artist--which is how many artists support themselves. I ended up with "just a job", and my husband often pressured me into pursuing a definite career path with measurable earning potential. He couldn't understand when I replied to his questions about what I wanted to do with my life with my telling him I just always wanted to be an artist, so nothing else really appealed to me. Not learning very well from my family, I eventually did get caught up in all the pressure to conform to what society expected from me and any art-making was pushed aside, but I was never truly happy. Within the last year, I've begun making jewelry as an outlet and I'm happier now than I've been in quite a while.

Now when someone questions me about my daughter following her heart, I just shrug and smile and tell them it's what she's always wanted to do--but I know that following this dream as far as she can is a very vital "non-vital" need.

I think no one here questions absolute support for our children's aspirations in the arts. I think no one here suggests that such children should be steered to "real" jobs. The only point that I make is that the way a parent deals with this should first be age dependent; and second be tempered with an adults understanding of the realities of the world.

If a 12 year old says they will not study very hard for a specific final because there is a performance coming up and they will not miss a single rehersal, I think that is to be strongly discouraged. If this this is a 16 year old who has a lead role and a real shot at the real deal, my approach could well be very different. We don't for a moment tell the younger child how many positions can open at major companies in the last 5 years and compare that to the aspiring girls at their studio alone. We do however make sure they have options.

If my 14 year old daughter tells me that puberty left her with a body that will almost assuredly significantly dim the possibility of a position at one of the major US companies (we all know what I mean - lets not pretend that the slenderest girl with a womanly body shape and very strong talent will not have a very hard time landing a contract at one of the major companies unless she is truly remarkable) and she would rather dance recreationally, I say bravo for a mature decision. My daughter will be a baby swan in ballet of obvious name in 2 weeks with her schools company. She knows her chance of doing that with NYCBallet is zero. If she expressed the same career redirection because she could only do 25 fouette's and will never dance the coda from swan lake, I tell her to get back in the studio and work harder.

No one supports the arts or the hard work our amazing children do more than I. I simply feel we need to temper absolute support with a dose of reality - perhaps not even to be shared with the dancer. Simply held in our minds as we help them negotiate the shoals of a world in which the preteen feels he or she are making career decisions.

balletmom, that's quite a strong familial link to the arts, which I think is probably not that uncommon if we all had the ability to really know the depths of our relatives' passions. I am, however, very sorry that your grandfather felt such anguish that he chose to end his life. I know you've made it clear that there is no direct correlation to his choosing this and his detour away from his artistic talents, never the less it's a tragic story.

I commend you for finding a new release yourself in the creative arts! Having been a fine arts student myself, who didn't end up in an arts related field during any of my many "careers", I admire you all the more!

Today, I think we, as parents, are much more aware of the many paths that our children might take...it's not the way it used to be, thank goodness! Exposure to the many avenues that branch off from the performing arts and fine arts are key to helping one's children realize their potential...and, even then, some of them may surprise us with their eventual choices. Thank goodness for the flexibility that is more available today!

sarsdad, I completely understand your thoughtful post. You make a number of good points with qualifying examples of the kinds of support parents in general need to offer their children. As you wrote:

There will be those who say that teens eventually do come to "reality" on their own, but in my opinion you're wise to realize that it's important to keep your own eyes open, as well. My belief is that most parents are aware, though they may not always know it until they really need to.

My 11 yr. old was selected to perform in our school district's fund raiser black tie dinner. Her teacher submited her name, and she was accepted. She was one of only 3 grade schoolers selected for the entire school district. Her teacher and her principal sat at our table. Her music teacher also attended, (who happened to have another teacher friend that was sadler-wells trained(sp?). She even received a writeup in the local paper this morning. My dd did 2 routines, ...a gypsy character dance from don Q. (lots of piques and pirouettes) and a flamenco fan dance.
We chose these because of the quick change. Her school is very supportive of her talents. We are still coming off the high from a wonderful evening.
She recently got excepted to the Vaganova summer intensive. Mansur give her (being so young) a chance to audition because of her flamenco training. She also made finals in the regional YAGP comp. (did not go to N.Y. though because she is too young and did not have a classical rountine, only the gypsy, and a modern routine). My young dancer is a very accomplished ballet, jazz, tap, modern, flamenco and hiphop dancer. As her AD has stated, "she has the heart of a dancer". ....She also wents to be a pro dancer.

It is a complex world, ...and I do not believe that the key to happiness, and success is the science many would have you believe.

So you're a dancing dad, with a dancing daughter? That's an interesting family dynamic, and one which isn't seen too often! Many such combination packages I've known have worked out just fine, but sometimes there's competition between the two dancers, when one tries to set their dreams up for the other. And it can go both ways! It's a tricky line to walk, and I wish you good luck with it.

My guess is that pretty much all parents of seriously focused DKs get this "criticism" or critical review of the DKs passion and the implied folly of the parental indulgence in childish dreams.

For everyone else, (including my mother) my response has always been a "whatever"-shrug of my shoulders along with the observation that "it will keep her off the streets when she's a teenager". Incidently, she is now a teenager and, boy, does it keep her off the streets!

For myself and my husband, we had to come to terms with the idea that this (as with many potential dancers) very,very bright and academically talented kid who has the potential to choose pretty much any profession and certainly, could choose one that would make her a very good living, is choosing a profession that most likely will keep her near-poverty level and with little hope of financial security.

We have come to terms with that by reviewing the priorities of life The point, I truly believe, is to be happy. Therefore, if dancing professionally is what makes her happy, then by all means, she should follow her heart. But, at the same time, she must be willing to live with the natural and logical consequences of that choice, i.e., she must learn to be happy living within her means in that profession---because if she can't, she won't truly be happy.

And, all dancers must at some point hang up their shoes and, therefore, she must be laying the groundwork for that second career. Specifically, I try to convince her that when that time comes, it will be much better for her to find herself somewhere a few rungs or more up that next ladder than at ground level, or below. Therefore, she is encouraged to maintain her high grades in the high academic classes and, to the extent reasonably possible, to take the AP classes, as well.

For us parents, the trick, I think, is for US to become comfortable with the idea that our child's chosen path in the less-financially rewarding arts arena is not only okay, but a pursuit equally as valid as one in law or medicine, for example. DH was hoping the second career might be in medicine, but DD is not interested and has mentioned teaching dance. Her father and I were able to realize that the value in that profession was incredible---after all, who could possibly say the teacher that touched the lives of so many, so intently and so individually had less intrinsic value to society (or the individual) than the financially-successful lawyer or doctor.

Bottom line, once the parents come to terms with the child's chosen path, no else's implied or direct criticism of that chosen path is of any importance. (But hopefully, neither the child nor the parents are operating in a delusional state).

Beautifully stated, dancemaven!

I would never undervalue my daughter's education, and I make sure she understands that obtaining a good, well-rounded education with college to follow is a priority. She has taken in the past and will be taking next year an AP class, and has always followed the honors track. She would like to become a physical therapist working with dancers one day, and she realizes she needs to have a good educational foundation to do this. The difference between myself and the other parents that I know personally is that I'm willing to view college as being attached to the end of a rubberband which may get stretched a bit in the next few years but will eventually snap back in place.

My daughter at age eleven decided she wanted to be a neonatologist and went to the hospital to tour the neonatology unit and interviewed a very kind female physician for a class project. But within a year of this, she started wavering and then finally admitted to us that she really wanted to be a neonatologist/professional dancer/choreographer--all at the same time--plus have about five children! Eventually she realized that in reality this would not work, so she has prioritized and modified her goals. She also realizes that one must be able to support oneself for the longterm and is fully aware of the kinds of salaries dancers make. I feel that if I am able to provide a degree of financial support to allow her to pursue her dream for a few years, I intend to do so--but she knows that support will not last forever. Even so, I really cannot picture her totally out of dance someday, it's simply too much a part of who she is.

It was such a funny thing this past Nutcracker. I think 3 or 4 seperate people, right after going on about how beautifully DD danced, then said, "When do you think she'll quit". That was such a bazaar question to me, much less to have been asked several times. While I have no idea how far DD will go in the world of ballet, I really think she will dance as an adult. I can't imagine her giving up the joy of it. When they asked, "When do you think she'll quit?", I said, "I don't think she will. Not that I am assuming that she'll dance professionally, but I definitely think she'll continue dancing as an adult." I think non-arts or non-ballet people sometimes think of ballet as something that "little girls" love.

I think non-arts or non-ballet people sometimes think of ballet as something that "little girls" love.




Yes, and the attitude that it is something we wouldn't dare think about them pursuing as a future.

You have "hit the nail on the head" here.

I love how this discussion has meandered into such interesting posts and how it has ended up here. This type of comment is exactly what urks me over and over.

This is the point for me - Yes, my daughter is going to pursue a career in dance. And yes, she is also pursuing her studies. And yes ------ it is a wonderful thing for her and for us (regardless of what you would want for your child)

Thank you very much.

Many, many dk's are exceptional academic students. Mine is not. She is an average student, creative, hardworking and very interesting but definately not straight A. But she is a really good dance student! So, why not allow her to pursue something she not only loves but does well at? For years and years I have been listening to other mothers and kids brag about their academically gifted dk's and selves....GRRRRR. That is also hard to deal with!

My observations for what it's worth as my son gets older and progresses up the ladder - after enduring the endless "slings and arrows" of being male and studying ballet; watching the dancers being "weeded" out; seeing the senior ranks shrink to the few left with the body type, talent and perseverance to stick it out, I hope and pray that one day he does land some type of professional contract. The fitting end to this passionate and expensive journey of dance. Oh - must not forget the academics, Plan B, when Plan A is over.