Jump to content
Ballet Talk for Dancers
Sunnydance

Bad dance training - my definition

Recommended Posts

DanceMumNYC

lol!

I forgot to mention that, until their expansion this year, classes were only held once/week. It's very popular in the dance world but I'm not sure if people really know what happens behind the scenes..

Share this post


Link to post
ballet1310

Honestly, this doesn’t sound like s place I would send my dd.

Share this post


Link to post
DanceMumNYC

I’m conflicted because I’m looking into schools where dd can take classes outside of ballet. Literally everyone I ask names this school. Even some threads on BT4D have mentioned it. Some kids seem to be doing very well, but I question if it’s the school or their training elsewhere. After doing my research and learning all of this information, I agree. I’m just curious as to how it became so popular and sought after.

Share this post


Link to post
ballet1310

Dancemumnyc - I’m only familiar with the nyc ballet programs do I can’t really answer except that everyone’s idea of what is good can be different - if this school is all about competitions and they win then I would guess people think they are good ... ( don’t know anything about competition world so....).  If your dd is enjoying tap , jazz , etc , just stick with it until it’s time to commit to ballet, then you will only be at the ballet program .

Share this post


Link to post
DanceMumNYC

This isn’t a competition studio. Sorry, I was hoping not to mislead anyone when I wrote “convention/competition,” meaning they attend a few conventions and, at some, scholarships and other awards are given. The thing is we know students from said NYC ballet schools (SAB, ABT, etc.) who dance there too to experience other styles. I’m a little surprised that other parents of pre-prof ballet dancers don’t see it this way. 

Share this post


Link to post
ballet1310

Ahh, I see - sorry if I’m a little confused - lol - so this school that teaches other styles doesn’t allow u to take more than a few ballet classes elsewhere ?

Share this post


Link to post
DanceMumNYC

Students are allowed to dance elsewhere. Most do. I just can’t determine how much of the training comes from this studio vs. kids’ other studios. Because at the dance conventions, their kids are always getting top scholarship awards. But the horrible ballet offered and the lack of teachers who trained professionally bother me, making me view it as a dinkle. 

Share this post


Link to post
ballet1310

If you are seeking true ballet training then you know those good schools in nyc already so if this school is just for other things such as tap or jazz, and your dd likes those classes , then I would just let her take those classes. When and if she wants to concentrate on ballet , have her only go to the true pre- pro programs - just my opinion ! Hope it helps !!

Share this post


Link to post
DanceMumNYC

Thanks! That’s our plan. She’s in a pre-prof school and we were looking into choices for the other classes. We keep hearing about this one in particular and after reviewing it, I wasn’t impressed. 

Share this post


Link to post
ballet1310

Great - your gut is always right !

Share this post


Link to post
Fraildove

DanceMumNYC, how old are the other dancers seeking so much outside ‘experiences’? As your daughter is only 10, and from what you have mentioned in previous posts seems to want to follow a pre-pro ballet track, I really don’t understand why you are trying to add all of these classes. Other methods of dance can be taken when a young dancer really has a solid ballet technique foundation and the muscle structure that goes along with it. Not only can other types of or styles of dance be unnecessary but can actually be detrimental in building the foundational muscle memory that ballet requires. When spending the same amount of training hours in turned out, very placed and lifted posture as opposed to a turned in and grounded, it is very difficult for a young dancer to make much progress in the ballet dept. Not always, but often times I’ve seen this when our younger dancers have been taking contemporary and lyrical in conjunction with good ballet training. It is a different story with character and when a little older, modern. Ballet is a slow boiled process (I know you must have read that here a 1000 times) but it is true. Following others advice so that a child can stay competitive or marketable may not be the advice that is best. I know it can seem that everyone is doing more, faster and at a younger age, but you need to ask yourself a question that I say a lot at our studio: Do you want your dancer to be the best 11 or 12 year old the world has ever seen or the best 20 or 25 year old? It is incredibly rare to be both.

Share this post


Link to post
cchow

Fraildove makes some great points.  And just because kids from SAB and ABT are also taking these classes doesn’t mean it’s a great idea for your dancer.  Most of the young kids at SAB will be eventually weeded out of the school, and most will fall off the pre-pro ballet track.  

I believe you mentioned that your dd has already suffered an injury from dance.  10 seems pretty young to have an injury, and I’m assuming she is not even en pointe yet.  It may be safer for her to focus on her ballet classes for now without extras like tap (which I do not think is really complementary to ballet).

Share this post


Link to post
DanceMumNYC

Thank you both for your advice. I will definitely take all of this into consideration. To answer your questions: The dancers seeking outside experiences are all ages, some even younger than my dd and some much older teens. It just seems like the thing to do there. Some are in pre-prof ballet while others are in competition studios or hip-hop crews. Some kids are dancing recreationally while others are already in Broadway or off-Broadway shows. It’s a LOT of variety there. I think the overall goal of everyone there, though, is to be a well-rounded dancer. Yes, my dd wants to follow a pre-prof track to get the best ballet training possible. However, she is very young and hasn’t made comprehensive “career goals” yet.

My dd came from a pre-prof school with a modern company, so modern was offered at a young age with pre-prof ballet. She eventually picked up tap there and was very good at it. She switched to a ballet-only pre-prof school, but wants to keep the other classes up. I’m looking into other options and this school is one of the highly recommended ones. But as you can see, I have my doubts. 

And yes, ballet has been very slow on our end. That is why she now spends the same amount of hours training in ballet as training in other styles although she only takes the other classes 1x/week. At her old school, there was definitely twice as much ballet. I questioned her school because other pre-prof programs in our area also have more ballet classes/week for her age group. Another thing we’ve noticed is that kids who come from competition schools or schools that heavily attend conventions and enter pre-prof ballet tend to do very well. I’m not sure if competition studios got better ballet teachers or what, but many are not what they used to be. We were stunned to learn a comp. child 2 years younger than my dd’s class auditioned and was placed in a level above them. There’s a lot of emphasis on the “slow boil” method and child development, so I didn’t understand how a 7-8 year old can do pre-pointe and is on track to go into pointe by age 9-10. Every year, we also see some older girls/teens who left comp for pre-prof ballet and got into competitive SIs their first year while other girls who’ve been training at said pre-prof school for the past 5-10 years didn’t. Other parents and I were discussing how we hear one thing and see another. I’m not sure what to believe at this point. 

My dd had her first “injury” a few weeks ago. She reported knee pain a day after class, but it seems as if she was misdiagnosed by urgent care (BT4D told me that was likely to happen!). She went to an Orthopedic who specializes in dance and pediatrics. She had muscle pain, and Icing and elevating did the trick. She is going to PT. She is very tall for her age and often has “growing pains” (I honestly don’t remember having those growing up, but MD knows best), so it’s been hard for me to see if something is a true dance-related injury or a normal process of the childhood/prepubescent years. 

Share this post


Link to post
dancemaven

First, you must decide for yourself and your daughter whether you are looking forward to an adult professional concert dance career or a young dancer career.  There is a big difference.  New York City has a lot of young dancers, young actors, phenoms, etc—-kids that may be around in adult years and most who won’t.   

The Teacher-Moderators here have—and continue—to train professional concert dancers, that is, professional company dancers—be that small, medium, or large company, North American, European, etc.  This Board is devoted to discussions of training for professional concert dancers.  We do not focus on commercial dance or even Broadway dance.  And we don’t focus on competition dance —although there are discussions regarding YAGP and Prix du Lausanne, as those are ballet-focused.

As I read your posts collectively, it seems you are looking for something much different than what this Board is focused on and geared towards.  Fraildove has outlined very articulately the basic reasoning behind the “slow boil” ballet training and the nature and introduction of complimentary dance forms at later ages.  The Teacher-Moderators have outlined and pinned General Age Appropriate Training Guidelines ( http://dancers.invisionzone.com/topic/54927-general-age-appropriate-training-guidelines/) to both the Parents Forums and several others.  Those guidelines do indicate which styles of dance are good auxiliary training for professional-seeking dance students and the appropriate ages when they can be introduced.

You seem to be asking the same question multiple places and not liking the answers you are getting:  slow-boil training.   I’m afraid you aren’t going to get the actual answer you seek here.  None of the Teachers here are going to encourage heavy hours for a 10-year old in other genres.  It takes time to build muscle memory and proper strength to attain the unnatural ballet positions (turn-out, lifted up and out).   Ballet training, itself, strengths and lengthens the muscles.  

As a long-limbed 10-year old, it would not be uncommon to have “growing pains”.  Tendons and ligaments grow more slowly than bones do.  So, it can hurt when they are out of whack.  My younger daughter was very long-limbed and nothing but bone and muscle and very active and fit.  From the time she was a little, little girl she had “growing pains” in her knees that would wake her out of a dead sleep.  It took a long time for her to finally get past all those.

If you and your daughter decide she is most interested in exploring all forms of various dance with a heavy schedule, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  It is her time to explore and enjoy.  If, however, she does decide at some point she does want a classical concert dance career, she will need to buckle down to the ‘slow boil’ method of ballet training —-and depending on when she makes that decision, she may have to play catch-up and unlearn/re-learn technique and skills.  There is nothing wrong with that choice.  It is just something to be aware of and to understand.

Best wishes on your search for classes for your daughter. :)

Share this post


Link to post
DanceMumNYC

Hi dancemaven, thank you for your response. Yes, I’m very aware of what this board focuses on and followed it for several years before deciding to make an account. I’m also grateful for those guidelines and saved them for my records! I’m sorry it seems that I’m asking the same questions and don’t like the answers cause that’s not at all the case. The question I asked in this particular thread was to determine if others would agree that this isn’t a professional school before enrolling my dd, because according to other pre-prof ballet parents who recommended the school for other styles of dance, it is, and I disagreed with them. I owe it to BT4D to spot a “Dinkle” when I see one.

I am in no way looking for intense training for my dd. I work in medicine (although not orthopedics!) and definitely understand the harm this can do in ballet, or any sport for that matter. I’m just glad the dance/pediatric orthopedic clarified that she wasn’t severely injured and this was only growing pains. Her focus has always been at the pre-prof ballet school, which she only attends 2x/week. I said I questioned her school because they dance less than her equivalent level at other pre-prof schools in our area. I didn’t specify exactly how much more, but it can range from a mere 15-30mins. extra per week to at most 1-2 more days per week. I believe someone brought it up in another thread that the moderators’ guidelines tell the minimum number of hours by age, but how much is too much? We have also discussed that not all comp studios are bad, and sometimes it’s not just something you can ignore. I pointed it out that even at our 3-letter school in NYC, comp dancers have actually done very well compared to dancers who have trained only there for years. Everyone’s path is different, and to reiterate what you said, their choices aren’t wrong. However, it does anger many parents to see a new comp kid move up.

According to the same guideline, my dd’s one tap or jazz class every week is fine. There’s another comment I made in another thread regarding favoritism of some sort preventing my dd from taking other classes, but please understand that she won’t be taking all these “extras” at once. It was a matter of her taking the 1-2 classes she was given as opposed to having the choice like said favored kids. This is not her pre-prof school (we are sticking to the slow-boil ballet method!)  but another studio, and as you see, I’m already looking into other options as suggested. So, yes, I have received the answers I seek here in regards to what she should take and how to handle studio issues. 

Thank you for the well wishes! :wub:

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×