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Congratulations to all of you..and I have a question


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Hi everyone!

I absolutely am in love with this artform and am pretty pleased to have found this community. Wow to all of you for all the knowledge and support you give eachother!


So, here is my little problem in my perfect ballet world. Could someone explain to me what is forced turnout? I must admit that I have never heard of turnout before I met my current teacher. I bought all sorts of books and read a lot on ballet technique. As a result I understand which muscles must be used to "turnout" and to maintain my external rotation (not from the knees etc..) but lately( I have noticed some minor(OK maybe medium) discomfort in both my psoas /illiac region when I am not dancing and especially when i try to developpe front eithe legs . It does not really hurt but would not like to further injure something. Has anyone experienced that?Do you guys have any advice? Is this what the warmup shorts are for?Of course, my teacher wants me to work with my natural abilities, so there is no pressure from her part. But is this forced-turn out when I counsciously try to maintain my turn out from the first plie to the last exercise in class by using my lower buttocks and external rotators??And yes sometimes I assume the frog position after being warmed up for maybe 2-5 minutes. Help!!!I don't want to stop dancing



thanks in advance and keep on dancing!

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Hello sylphide, and welcome to Ballet Alert! Online :)


Forced turnout is when someone tries to rotate well beyond their natural ability. It does not sound like you are doing that, although hard to say without seeing you. You can work on your rotation, but just don't push it beyond what your body is capable of doing.

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Hi, Sylphide, and welcome to the Adult Students' Forum at Ballet Talk on Ballet Alert! Online!:)


I'm glad you've found a teacher who's up to the special challenges of teaching adults. Like teaching the very, very, young, it's a real art by itself.


"Forced turnout" can be told most easily with the foot or feet on the floor. When the foot starts to roll over toward the inside of the foot, then you've got an example of forced turnout. "Turnout" is where the feet end up on the floor; "rotation" is the amount of turning from straight ahead that can be achieved from the femur in the hipjoint. If you have a lot more turnout than you have rotation, the knees suffer! There is a small amount of turnout that happens from the knee down, but it's really negligible, as that joint isn't designed to twist! Other signs of forced turnout include the pelvis either sticking out too far in back, or being way too far "tucked under" and collapsing the front! It's a bad thing, and best avoided!

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thank you Ms.Leigh and Mr Johnson.

I now understand the distinction between turnout and rotation.

I love it when I learn more and more about ballet! I thing being a nerd is a transferable skill!!

From what you have told me, I do not think that I force turnout but that I am working hard on my external rotation. Since this happens in the hip socket, should I consider wearing warmup shorts to add more warmth in that region? Or could my discomfort merely be the result of seriously pursuing a "new" activity?




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I think it's mostly attributable to the recent discovery of the concept of rotation that could be causing the discomfort. Once you establish the correct amount of rotation that you can safely achieve, it will pass.

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Guest grace

it might make you feel even more better, if i tell you that i have no idea what an actuary is, or does - except that it must be something like an accountant? please can you fill me in?

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Hey Grace,

Thanks for the interest..

Believe me... I will spare you the details...

I don't want to bore you guys with any more details.

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