Just Wondering

[Fred]

This may not be 100% ballet related but it relates a bit to Susanne's topic about what would attrack more men and boys to ballet.

 

OK here goes :

 

Why can a woman do things related to men, but a man can not do things related to women ?

 

For example:

 

If a woman would for example work on a car or maybe paint the house would is more related to a men she would not receive any funy remarks, but if a man for example making clothes that is more related to a woman he might be considdered as weird or nor being normal etc.

 

The same goes with colors :

 

If a woman walk into an office full of people wear blue that is normaly associated with men, nobody will say anything about it, but let a man step in wearing pink for example the people might not directly say somthing but they will have thoughts about that man.

 

Would like to here your opinions.

 

fred

[Mel Johnson]

Not too long ago, it was decided that male attire could be "juiced up" with the addition of "power pink". Pink shirts are still good, and pink sportsuits, under the dictum, "ya gotta be tough enough to wear pink!" But I don't think they've made it in the law firms or brokerages around the country.

[buglady]

I have always thought it was a commentary on the way women are viewed by the world in general. I'm aware that this is a generalization, but I think that there is a strongly implied insult that it is ok for a female to dress like a man or perform work traditionally done by males, because there tend to be higher values placed on "male" skills. But when a man takes on a role traditionally held by women, suddenly he is valued less. What does that tell us about how society values women's roles? I know I'm offended! I make bobbin lace as a hobby (or at least I used to back when I had free time!). If you do any reading about the history of lacemaking and its role in commerce and import laws in Europe, you will find that in many areas lace was made exclusively by men and was worth much more than local currency or even gold. When the lacemaking was gradually taken over by women, the value dropped. The quality had not changed, only the gender creating it. A similar thing happened in Spain when the lacemaking community was largly Jewish. The value dropped, the lacemakers were actually run out of the country, and that was the beginning of what was to be known as the black point ground lace that eventually evolved into Chantilly. Even the average person knows how famous lace from that region of France became. So obviously, it was not the quality or beauty that was a problem, it was the way people percieved the group that did the work. How an object, color, article of clothing, or activity can be percieved to change value based on what gender or ethnic group is associated with it amazes me. I guess I figure that is something has worth, it has worth, regardless of who touched it.

[Susanne]

Yes I agree with buglady to 100%!

 

It starts already in the childhood. Being a tomboy is regardes as "a phase" and she might eventually grow up into a real beauty. (Yes, women are still judged by their appearance and men by their skills, but that's a different story)Or maybe people will see her as a tough girl in a positive way. While if a boy likes to play with dolls it is much less accepted.

 

Female attributes are not valued as high as men ones!

[Fred]

Might be wrong but I think when it comes to men crossing the gender line woman are more open minded and these men are more accepted by woman then other men.

 

Fred

[Guest BBNButterscotch]

Because women are better.

 

JK. No, I think alot of it has to do with the fact that women are still trying to asser their place in society, where as men don't feel a need to do that. Women have been able to do "men" things for such a short period of time, I think that we are taking full advantage of that, and men are careful not to step on our toes for fear of being viewed as sexist. I think eventually it will lax up and we will both be able to harass each other equally... oh joy.

[davidg]

So obviously, it was not the quality or beauty that was a problem, it was the way people percieved the group that did the work.

 

I've noticed this about other things too. Styles of music produced by high-status social groups are more highly valued than those produced by low-status groups.

[Dance_Scholar_London]

Fred, you might want to read some fashion history, in the past, males were equally dressed up just as women, including high heels, tights and even make up was considered as a 'must'. This has changed with the 'great masculine renunciation', where men gave up their 'rights to fashion'. The 1980s have seen, however, a return of fashion for men - in cultural studies terms this is called the 'renounced great male renunciation'. There is plenty of literature in this field, have fun reading

[Fred]

Thanks for the information.

 

Freddie

[dianec]

I just love the idea of power pink - thank you for that! I wear a lot of bright fuschia pink (never pastel), & can see it transforming investment banks etc. Maybe the City banks could offer ballet class at the office (so the guys would not be too far from their screens) in place of all those silly Body Pump and karate classes....

[Fred]

Pitty there is no pink belt in karate

 

Freddie

[Guest balletguy33]

Fred, you might want to read some fashion history, in the past, males were equally dressed up just as women, including high heels, tights and even make up was considered as a 'must'. This has changed with the 'great masculine renunciation', where men gave up their 'rights to fashion'. The 1980s have seen, however, a return of fashion for men - in cultural studies terms this is called the 'renounced great male renunciation'. There is plenty of literature in this field, have fun reading

 

I would break my ankel if i were to wear high heals.

In films on yesteryear, you do see men in tights, wigs, makeup etc. it was an intresting time.

[spingirl]

Being a tomboy is regardes as "a phase" and she might eventually grow up into a real beauty.

 

LOL. A while back I was with some friends and we were talking about TV shows. One of my friends was going on about how she looooooved "Little House on the Prairie" while I was making gagging noises. She laughed and said, "Oh, you're just a tomboy!" HUH???? I haven't been called that since fourth grade!! Just because I hate sappy TV shows, I'm a tomboy???

 

Actually, I didn't take it that hard. I knew she was teasing. But I think it's kind of funny that because I have a fair dose of common sense and prefer "Law & Order" to...well, just about any TV show...that makes me a tomboy. I might add that I clean up very nicely and have been called "elegant" when I pull out all the stops! But on the other hand, I can shingle a roof and hang drywall when called upon to do so.

 

But really, how tomboyish can I be, when I can't wait to get the chance to wear a tutu?

[Fred]

Well then I must be a lucky MAN as I had the chance of wearing a tutu, not in a performance though only the one I got in my dance collection at home

 

Freddie

[Guest balletguy33]

Actually, I didn't take it that hard. I knew she was teasing. But I think it's kind of funny that because I have a fair dose of common sense and prefer "Law & Order" to...well, just about any TV show...that makes me a tomboy. I might add that I clean up very nicely and have been called "elegant" when I pull out all the stops! But on the other hand, I can shingle a roof and hang drywall when called upon to do so.

 

But really, how tomboyish can I be, when I can't wait to get the chance to wear a tutu?

 

Nothing wrong with being a tomboy at all, esp. if you cant wait to get into a tutu