TURN OUT

[Guest balletjumbie]

I can do all the frog leg sits and i have all the turn out in the hips. My retirees are flat to the side, but when i stand in 5th position i cant hold the turn out without dropping my pelvis. How can i correct this quickly.

[Victoria Leigh]

Hello Balletjumbie, welcome to the Adult Ballet Students forum here on Ballet Alert! Online

 

I'm sorry, but I really don't quite know what you mean by "dropping" your pelvis. Can you explain that in a bit more detail? Is it possible that you are hyperextended, and need to have a slight space in your fifth in order to align the torso and pelvis properly?

[Paul Parish]

Hello,

BalletJumbie--

 

Maybe -- I'm a bit confused by your phrasing, like miss Leigh. she is the expert, but from my experience, I think I know what you are talking about. It sounds like you are more turned out with your knees bent than with them straight -- most of us are, I MYSELF certainly am. It's normal. At the bottom of a grand plie in fifth, i am VERY much more turned out than I am by the time I've completely straightened my legs.

 

I've had to work on this a long time. You can develop more turn-out with your legs straight -- but hte MOST important thing is to learn to make the transition from bent knee to straight without FORCING your turn-out. WHich means you will probably have to live with less turn-out in fifth flat than in fifth plie.

 

I've found that the turn out must come from above -- I used to try to "hold the floor with my feet" -- jam my feet into a sandwich fifth (with relaxed knees) -- but that leaves you unstable, and besides, it will RUIN your knees. Actually, what seems most secure is when I feel the turn-out coming from the lower abdomen, the legs must relax and turn out without being squeezed or forced -- to do passe, the knee drops sideways and just happens to rise, since it's bending the leg has to get shorter but the ACTION is not lifting the knee but DROPPING it sideways..... Similarly, the straight legs fall open into turn-out -- and a tendu devant comes from the back of hte lower ribs, not from the hip....

 

Good luck!! and welcome to the adult group.

[Guest balletjumbie]

What i mean is that my pelvis drops forward so that there is an arch in my lower back. This causes my teacher has to say lengthen my back.

[Victoria Leigh]

Balletjumbie, has your teacher shown you how to place the pelvis and to hold it so that it does not do that? When you understand what it is supposed to do, and what muscles to use to hold it, then it is up to you to hold it there and not allow it to "drop" forward. You have to take charge of your own body, not let "it" do what it wants to do! It is primarily the abdominal muscles that help you to hold your pelvis and your back in proper alignment. Be sure that your weight is forward too!

[Mel Johnson]

Your teacher must be RAD-trained!

 

The way that you strengthen and lengthen your spine requires you to support the torso from the front with the abdominals, then also feel the spine become as long as possible without allowing it to tilt forward (tucking under), thus tipping the hipbones backward, and encouraging over-rotation of the legs and pushing the knees out on a line forward of the toes.

[Guest balletjumbie]

I have done my intermediate ISTD and now i am going to do my Advanced 1(formerly intermediate) RAD in march 2004 and this turn out issue is causing me alot of anxiety. Do you suggest that i do ab strengthening exercises as well as Pilates?

[Mel Johnson]

That would be an indicated course of action, and Pilates has many exercises dedicated to abdominals.

[Guest Kelsey]

Hey Paul Parish, I saw your reply to Dancingboi when you answered to his concern about his turnout. I tend to have that same habit of gripping the floor...and I was pretty interested in your reply that Pilates helped you to correct that habit. Specifically what sort of pilates? did you just do matwork and what were the exercises you did? and how long did it take before you managed to change?

 

I really have a horrible habit of starting nicely in sandwich fifth, but once i do the exercise, my turnout does not 'hold' and my lack of strength becomes really obvious when i degage to a la seconde and lift the working leg off the floor. it's horrible! My working leg starts to turn in I'm trying real hard to correct this because i realise that when i was learning ballet as a kid, my teacher hadn't spotted this. Oh WELL...never too late to start unlearning!

[dido]

I put on socks and practice slow tendus in my room, which has a very slippery wooden floor, so even if I want (and boy do I want) to grip the floor I can't.

[lampwick]

The abdominals are very important for maintaining rotation and pelvic alignment. My teacher has been working on those little muscles under my butt too. I have a tendency to hyperextend my knees and tilt the pelvis back, which causes the quads to work too hard to support me. Trying to strengthen the muscles under my butt and working from the hamstrings has really helped me maintain rotation when I work.

 

Thinking about lengthening my spine never did me any good. I never really understood why the back would sway, and I'd try to correct the consequence of poor pelvic alignment (swaying back), instead of correcting the root cause (weak muscles under the butt and inner thighs).

[Guest balletjumbie]

Lampwick what exercises do you suggest for the inner thigh and under butt muscles?

[lampwick]

I'd look into a good floor barre or pilates class. I'm reluctant to describe the floor work that I do on-line because it's kind of complicated and easy to do incorrectly.

 

One thing I would recommend are those "scissor" kicks, laying on your back. You can do them to the back as well, by lying on your stomach. The important thing is to keep your abdominals pulled in and your lower back on the floor. If your lower back arches and your stomach pops out, it's a huge amount of strain on your back. Very bad. You may need to start with your legs almost straight up until you develop strength.

 

Just scissor your legs side and in, like giant changements. Maintain turnout and try to do them as wide and fast as possible. The action coming in will develop a lot of strength.

[Paul Parish]

Hey Balkletjumbie, sorry not to answer your question earlier -- but YES, Pilates -- the mat classes are harder, the reformer classes are more expensive but they help you if you're weak in hte abs to start with. yu can't even START on some of hte mat exercises till yu can do roll-downs successfully -- they are therefore to my min hte key exercise, and teasers, and hte ronde de jambe exercises -- learning to keep the base of the spine still while doing ronde de jambe will reveal SO much to you about how turn-out really works..... there are LOTS of exercises in hte system, which keeps you aware of how difficult it IS to initiate from the center ...

 

The other thingthat's importantis to realize that it's ok, in fact a good thing to take only the turn-out you can USE on your standing leg. As you build strength, your turn-out should increase -- but that's a gradual process. this means that steps to the side will NOT go straight side , and if you're stepping sideways and lifting the leg you were standing on, you'll have to bring it forward in order to turn it out -- be bold, go ahead, and DO that, expect to, plan on it -- use equal turn-out, and all you've got, but....... Well, I'm starting to sound like I'm preaching, so I'll stop here...

 

GOod luck!!!