5th position

[Guest waterwerty]

I have very hyper-extended legs, and when i close back into 5th posistion, either i let me knees bend, or i end up getting a knee injury. If anyone has this problem with suggestions for me, please comment!

[Mel Johnson]

Oh brother, this is a miserable problem, because it involves having to control your legs in a condition where they don't feel straight, but they look straight. You have to release your knees to the point where you can close the feet in a good fifth position, or possibly even take a VERY short fourth, about the separation of your big toe's width, in order to make the legs look straight. When they are that way, then you have to lift up almost out of the floor through your knees and thighs to keep them from getting out of control and locking back. Do you follow me?

 

(and welcome again - this time to the Young Dancers' Forums!)

[Guest waterwerty]

Hmmm... that is something to think about! Thankyou. Last year I got a very bad knee injury from this problem. And yes, the young dancers category. Im only 13!

[Mel Johnson]

Great, glad to have you here! Our goal now is to prevent more knee injuries, because hyperextended knees can get jammed locked and can cause a lot of different kinds of soft tissue injuries. You will find that you have more flexibility and extension than your peers, and also have a lot better control of your balance (because you have more "play" in your joints). Me, I had that other problem, bow-leggedness.

[Guest waterwerty]

Yeah, in the past i have had Osgood Schlatter's disease, where the kneecap basically disconnects from the knee. I've also had it in my heel, and maybe you have some suggestions on preventing it.

[Guest izzydance]

maybe if your are having some problems with this you could possibly take your feet back to 3rd and slowy move your feet back to 5th when you don't feel this problem in 3rd. if you still feel this in 3rd mabe you should talk to your teacher.

[Mel Johnson]

Izzy, let's give wert a chance to work on one thing at a time. The big deal is to get the legs to look straight, and that can take some considerable adjustment. And of course, we all ALWAYS rely on our teachers as our first line of instruction, right?

[Mel Johnson]

Now, Osgood-Schlatter's Disorder/Disease is a general misery around the fibula (shinbone) that's most frequently found in young teens. It's a sort of super shin-splint, but it can leave unpleasant-looking knots under your knees and sometimes at the front of the ankle. The best first aid is RICE (Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation) and then take it easy on things like grand pliés, and things that work your knees especially hard. Sometimes it's wise to keep one or two of those instant cold compresses in your dance-bag just for such emergencies.

[Victoria Leigh]

Izzy, Mr. Johnson was very kind in his response, but I am going to add that advice on Young Dancers' forums is given by the teacher/moderators, and not by young teens. While I'm sure you are trying to help, your advice is not correct, and if everyone tried to offer technical correction here, the poor poster who asked the question would be terminally confused. The rule around here is Teens ask questions, Teachers answer them.

[Guest waterwerty]

I havent had the Osgood problem in a while, maybe it happens during growth spurts more. But i have been doing the RICE procedure when it starts to act up. Thanks for all of the advice from you guys. It is very helpful! The fifth position knee problem mostly bothers me when we are doing fast tondues to the back and my teacher tries to get my foot behind me(i am having a bit of a problem with that, too. I wonder if hyper-extention has to do with it). But I will practice trying to pull up more. Thank you for the help!

[Mel Johnson]

I havent had the Osgood problem in a while, maybe it happens during growth spurts more. But i have been doing the RICE procedure when it starts to act up. (snip)The fifth position knee problem mostly bothers me when we are doing fast tondues to the back and my teacher tries to get my foot behind me(i am having a bit of a problem with that, too. I wonder if hyper-extention has to do with it). But I will practice trying to pull up more.

Yes, OSD is most often seen during growth spurts! Very perceptive! And yes, the hyperextension can contribute to the knee problems because if the knee is locked in back of straight, it can lead to stress on the joint. If the knee is held in a straight-appearing manner, then not only will the tendu back be easier to do, but it will start automatically to find straight back!

[FlexNPointe123]

I have 5th position problems too, but not for the same reason. I have a HORRIBLE turnout, and I cant seem to get it much better. My front foot rolls forward, and I have to "crank" me feet to touch my heels and toes together! OUCHEEWOWOW!!

[Victoria Leigh]

Which is why they roll inwards, Flex. You cannot "crank" the 5th beyond what your hips will tolerate at this point in time. A good 5th is very important, but if you force it too much, too soon, without the strength to use the rotation or because you do not have much rotation, then that just causes problems that you do not want to have. Time and patience, and a lot of hard work, and you can improve that 5th, but not if you allow yourself to keep rolling.

[FlexNPointe123]

I meant to say that I USED to do that, now my teacher has brought it to my attention, and I think that by using my ankles it will help to pull them up! I sometimes let it go, but I am really trying!

[mandy1313]

I have a similiar problem with bent knees in 5th position only it's due to one leg being more bowed than the other. When I fully straighten my leg it moves a few inches out of a 5th position into a sort of "mini 4th". As well since my legs are not hyperextend, when they're bent they look bent. I can do a full side split when warmed up so I suppose it's not a flexability issue. Thanks!