Problem keeping legs straight in 5th

[Chinafish]

Hello!!

 

Well the title pretty much says it, when I stand in 5th it feels like my thighs are too big, and I can't keep my legs straight (mostly my front leg).

 

(Well come to think of it I always think my thighs are big but that's another matter )

 

So are there any exercises / things I can imagine while I'm standing in 5th that I can tackle this problem?

 

I think my legs are a little hyperextended, if that helps. When I do a tendu out in 1st and come back in I have to try very hard to keep my heels together.

 

Any help is much appreciated! Thanks!

 

Cheers,

Fish

[Mel Johnson]

Dear Fish,

 

I think you may be a little hyperextended, too. Many students find themselves with trouble closing fifth because their knees travel "more than straight". All the knees have to LOOK like is straight, but they have to be pulled up. So, if they feel tight together at the thigh, that's no big deal - do the legs look straight? If your teacher permits it, you may even take a very short fourth position with less than a hand's span between the feet when you do a fifth.

[Chinafish]

Um... no, they don't look straight and they don't feel straight...

 

Once the teacher's pointed this out to me and I look at myself in the mirror I realise that I'm not pulled up enough when I take my leg back from tendu.

 

When I stand in 5th (say right foot front), I would feel the left thigh preventing me from pulling my right thigh in, so it just stays there, while I have a little more space below the knee - and I bring the heel a little more in to keep it with the left toe, I think that's what added to the problem.

 

Hm... I hope I made sense. Now thinking about it, should I be thinking more "up" than "in"? It's just really hard because it feels like I can't straighten my legs anymore as the left thigh's in the way, and when I really try to straighten it it feels like I'm squeezing the thighs together really hard.

 

Cheers,

Fish

[Mel Johnson]

Now thinking about it, should I be thinking more "up" than "in"? It's just really hard because it feels like I can't straighten my legs anymore as the left thigh's in the way, and when I really try to straighten it it feels like I'm squeezing the thighs together really hard.

 

Cheers,

Fish

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly! That's one of the things I was trying to convey. And don't overlook that "short fourth position" option I mentioned. Remember, up is where it's at!

[Chinafish]

Thanks!!! I think I get it now

 

**Stands up and start practising while people around me in the office looks at me wondering what I'm doing**

 

Cheers,

Fish

[Garyecht]

I vividly remember the very first ballet class I ever took. We were learning first position. I was looking at myself in the mirror, heels touching, actually pretty well turned out, with this huge gap between my legs. Teacher kept emphasizing the bringing of the legs together. Impossible, unthinkable as far as I was concerned though others in the class seemed to do it. Ditto with fifth position. I’m not sure my legs touched anywhere.

 

Eight years later, you know what? Legs sure have come together a whole lot. And that has been without doing anything other than doing ballet regularly since that first class.

 

Your body always adapts to the stresses that are placed on it. After about 400--500 classes your body is a whole lot more “balletic” then it was before. And all you have to do is pay your money, show up, and repeat regularly.

[lampwick]

If your pelvis tips forward (your butt sticks out), it'll be difficult to maintain a straight front leg in 5th. Look at yourself from the side in the mirror and make sure you're not doing something funky with your pelvis when you close from tendu. It's very common to do this. You may have to lift out of your hips much more than you think. Sounds like you may have figured this out already...Also, make sure you're not twisting at all when you tendu. Some people move thier whole hip when they move the leg. You don't really need to.

 

This may or may not be the case for you, but fifth is tricky for me sometimes because my legs are slightly different lengths My pelvis is very uneven--the right side is noticably (you can clearly see it) further back than the left. It takes a little effort to "readjust" from standing on one leg to two. This too, is not uncommon. It helps to know, though. Maybe your teacher can take a look. I never even noticed how uneven my bones were until my teacher pointed it out.

 

I leave a little space in my first position to accomodate my knees. I don't leave a LOT of space and push back into the hyperextension and encourage any further stretching, but I do leave a little.

 

I see a lot of dancers who are a bit thicker in the quads leave some space in 5th (the little 4th Mel mentioned). It's a really good idea to do this. Better than trying to force the feet togther (bad for the knees, and it'll throw off your alignment). It's not really noticable when dancing. Lots of people need to do this for a while, until the quads start to thin out. They will, if you are well placed on the supporting side at all times. If you're not, you start to grip with them and add bulk. Gripping the quads can make the knees hurt too (that's where they are connected). I had pain in my knee for as long as I can remember (we're talking over 15 years) with developpes and grands battements. It wasn't until my teacher started to get me REALLY shifted onto my supporting hip (and I still have some way to go), that the pain disappeared. The knee hardly bothers me at all any more.

[Victoria Leigh]

Correct weight placement is just as important as alignment. If the weight settles into the heels, there is way too much pressure on the quads and knee, and no way to get into a good 5th with straight legs, hyperextended or not.

 

When you close into 5th from a tendu or anything else you must feel as if you are coming "up" to 5th, not in or down.

[Boots]

My pelvis is very uneven--the right side is noticably (you can clearly see it) further back than the left.

 

Lampwick,

I have the same problem – my pelvis is twisted so that the right side is further back than the left (my rib cage is also slightly twisted in the same direction). I’m not sure if it was caused by an injury that I had to my hip or if it was a contributing factor to said injury, but either way it causes problems for me. I find that it’s really a challenge when my right leg is the standing leg. For example in passé, my whole body wants to twist to the right, so I really have to fight to keep my left leg rotated out and my knee back. Do you have similar problems? Any tips?

 

I had surgery for aforementioned injury. The effect of the injury was to limit the rotation on my right side, which I am regaining through physical therapy, but I still have the effect that I just mentioned. Oddly, when I do things like passé or develop on the right, I don’t feel much restriction – I have pretty good range of motion on that side, despite the injury. But when my right leg is the standing leg and I passé or develop on the left, my whole pelvis tilts – it’s like the right side can move independently of the left but the left can’t move without taking the right side with it.

[Mr Robin]

I had pain in my knee for as long as I can remember (we're talking over 15 years) with developpes and grands battements. It wasn't until my teacher started to get me REALLY shifted onto my supporting hip (and I still have some way to go), that the pain disappeared. The knee hardly bothers me at all any more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hi Lampwick

 

Could you tell me more about the pain in your knee - where exactly did you feel it? I've asked about something similar in another thread ('Problem with developpe') and would be interested to know whether my problem is the same!

 

Cheers,

 

Robin

[dancepig]

When you close into 5th from a tendu or anything else you must feel as if you are coming "up" to 5th, not in or down.

 

This is great advice, I'll have to remember this! Thank you!!

[lampwick]

For example in passé, my whole body wants to twist to the right, so I really have to fight to keep my left leg rotated out and my knee back. Do you have similar problems?

Boots--I'm trying to deal with the same thing. I almost have to feel twisted to the left in order for my pelvis to be straight. My left side is pretty locked up too. Standing on the right leg is harder than the left. That hip just WANTS to go back. I don't have any "tips" per se. It's something I'm constantly working on. My teacher reminds me to really work on not going back on the right, but she seems to know that it's just going to take a long time to aquire the right feeling. I got some exercises at my chiropractor's office that are supposed to help even them out, but I have a feeling it's just going to be a thing I have to deal with. My mom said I was born with strange hips and the doctors weren't quite sure whether or not to put me in a cast. They ended up not going that route, and giving my mom some exercises for me instead. I have very slight scoliosis (an "S" curve), and my spine is also a bit twisted. My attitude back is much more difficult with the left leg up. I've been told that the scoliosis is surprisingly minor given the fact that my hips are SO off. I've been underweight my whole life, so gravity hasn't been given the chance to do much damage to my spine. I'm sure all the years of ballet lessons helped too

 

My chiropractor doesn't mess around with my SI joint, and has recommended continuing the way I'm working. He also said to get some massge on my left glutes. I get some spasms in there which really affects flexibility on that side. I know people who have found chiropractors that adjust the SI joint, and who get injections of cortisone into it, but I'm just not personally comfortable with those options. I'd rather take the time to try and sort it out naturally and work with it, rather than getting injections. I trust my chiro and ballet teacher. They haven't messed me up yet It'll just take some time. Other people have been happy with other decisions (and have gotten quicker results than me)...but it's really a personal choice.

 

It hasn't affected my rotation. I have almost 180 degree turnout, and it's even on both sides. I just can't seem to place my hips right in order to make full use of it yet. I turn in a lot when I'm dancing. Something to work on.

 

Mr. Robin--

I read your thread about your knee and mine sounds different. I get a sharp pins and needles type of pain under the kneecap when I straighten my knee for a developpe or grand battement. The pain goes away immediately if I lower my leg, and it doesn't bother me in general when I dance. I suspect that I'm gripping with the quads too much on that knee and it pulls something off "track". I kept a record of when it happens. It only bothers me one or two days a months during the time in my cycle when I am ovulating. Wierd and too much information...I know. I guess my joints loosen up a bit too much during that time. It's never gotten any worse since I was 11 years old, so I don't concern myself too much with it. It's more of an annoyance than anything (hopefully). When it's bothering me, I know it right away and just lower my leg that day, being extra sure to not grip the quads. I'm totally making an educated guess about what's going on with the knee. I haven't gotten professional input on it. Since it's never gotten worse (and is actually much better now), I'm hoping it's a "quirk" and not something that will blow out some day when I have no cartilage left. eeek.

[Boots]

It hasn't affected my rotation. I have almost 180 degree turnout, and it's even on both sides.

 

Well now I'm just jealous!

 

Thanks for the reply Lampwick - it's somehow comforting to know that someone out there can relate to my weird twisted pelvis problem. Regarding the SI joint, my physical therapist did some great connective tissue massage for the area (I was also getting spasms there) and also did some range of motion and other exercises to loosen it up a bit (no extreme adjustments or anything), and it felt wonderful. That and a couple rolfing sessions that focused on my hip area have really helped my loosen up a little. But I do really need to focus on keeping that left side turned out when the right leg is the standing leg. I guess I need to keep doing those PT exercises. I probably also need to just accept that this is something I'll always need to deal with.