Dance_Scholar_London Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 I have done some experimental choreographic research last summer and would like to explore more what I have started. I was working on grand pirouettes from 4th with an extended leg en avant to 90 degree or higher. The preparation was either from a 4th or 4th lunge position via à la seconde, or (more difficult) as a grand battement. I would like to get some technical advise how the leg could be brought back into second, or even arabesque from this position. On a good day dancer could do triples on pointe with this specific turn. Any recommendations greatly appreciated. PS: There was no finish of this turn in my choreography as the turn was stopped by partnering Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 I think that there was something like that in old-time Cecchetti. All that would be necessary would be to carry the working leg in a demi-grand or grand rond de jambe to seconde, or arabesque, respectively. Oh, and keep turning. Argh! Link to comment
Gina Ness Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 This is not a usual turn in ballet class? Leg fully extended to the front while turning? I would envision this piroette more in a choreographed piece, like you are working on...In addition to Mr. Johnson's advice, if you are turning to the right and taking that right leg around to second, back, etc....better hold that left side up like mad! Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 You are SO right! Link to comment
Dance_Scholar_London Posted February 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 This is not a usual turn in ballet class? Leg fully extended to the front while turning? I would envision this piroette more in a choreographed piece, like you are working on...<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, it is a non-codified turn. It looks very pretty though. Have been doing choreographic reserch in a dance lab last year and hopefully will get funding to do it again this year. Just exploring options. It is very interesting to play with ballet technique and break out of it. The problem with this turn is that bringing it back with a rond de jambe is really difficult to do without loosing the balance. Well, I will keep on trying (say, my dancers will have to try). But thanks for your suggestions Link to comment
lampwick Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Is it like an efface turn into a grande ronde de jambe ending in 3rd (?)arabesque. My terminology is terrible. sorry. You start in a lunge or 4th, go into a pirouette en dehors while bringing the working leg into an extension front (we often do this with arms in efface position), turn one or two or three...times and quickly ronde de jambe into arabesque to end? That's done all the time in class. It would be really difficult to end in releve...usually one would take plie and link into a pas de bouree en tournant or something. Do you mean for the turn to end in releve? That would be a tough one... I would think to bring the right side of my back up and forward to end the turn, if I'm turning to the right Link to comment
Gina Ness Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Hi...I don't think DSL (please let me know if I'm in error!) meant a grande rond de jambe "after" an en dehors piroette...this IS often given in class (more likely with another releve before the grande rond de jambe, plain or with turn)...I believe he means for the piroette to have the leg extended to the front while turning once or multiple times then bringing the working leg around to arabesque...pretty tough to do! Link to comment
Dance_Scholar_London Posted February 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 I believe he means for the piroette to have the leg extended to the front while turning once or multiple times then bringing the working leg around to arabesque...pretty tough to do! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, I mean the turn. Feel free to try it out (on flat first) and share your experience. This is just one of many modified turns I will work on. It is tough work but fun to experiment Link to comment
vrsfanatic Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Dance_Scholar_London, I am trying to understand this turn...are you turning en dehors or en dedans? Link to comment
Dance_Scholar_London Posted February 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 En dedans. Sorry for not explaining properly. English is just my second language Not sure if it would work en dehors, but hey, you give me a good idea... ;-) Link to comment
vrsfanatic Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 The turn you are describing is a mandatory turn in the Vaganova program of study, sixth year program. One could do a demi-plie in the pose croise front 90 degrees, facing any point of the floor plan depending which leg is the working leg, turn fouette from pose to pose by way of a rise to demi-pointe/pointe or a jump into arabesque or leg held to the side at 90 degrees. This complication would be an addition studied in the 7th and 8th year. It is done quite often in choreography. Link to comment
lampwick Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 I believe he means for the piroette to have the leg extended to the front while turning once or multiple times then bringing the working leg around to arabesque...pretty tough to do! That's what I thought he meant. I've never tried to double it though. It's almost the same feeling as a renverse, if I understand correctly. That would be en dehors though.. We often do an en dedans with the leg a la second, then bring it around to arabesque to end. I suppose it could come front too, thought it might be a little more difficult to get that rond de jambe at the end. A fouette to arabeque could work. Sasha Filipov gives stuff like this very often in class. The entire adagio sometimes consists of doing a chasse into a prep, then doing various en dedans turns (oftentimes with the hands aboove the shoulders, or one arm up or something. Really makes you feel your back and hold it solidly. Link to comment
Dance_Scholar_London Posted February 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 A fouette would be an option but I want to break out of codified technique. Rond de jambe at the end is indeed quite difficult, especially when it is a double turn and dancer has a certain speed. Link to comment
lampwick Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 You don't think I meant a fouette turn do you--like Swan Lake? ha ha.I meant a fouette where you grand battement into front and whip your body so you end in arabesque. I can't possibly think of another humanly possible way to bring this into arabesque besides some sort of fouette right to arabesque. You can add any type of swoop with the arms or body to make it look more contemporary. How about making it a fouette with saute? That would be more of an explosive look. If the dancer's good enough to stop the turn and go into some type of straight developpe or something, that could look good, but it's pretty hard to stop something like that. Sounds fun! Link to comment
Dance_Scholar_London Posted February 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Hehehe, no I did not think of a fouette pirouette. In the current version, the turn is stopped by a male partner who "walks" into the pirouette. From the audience view, it looks like her extended front leg is stopped by his waist (there is where the legs stops) but actually he stops it with his hand. Dancer then develops leg onto his shoulder, etc... I am now exploring different possibilities to stop the turn without a partner (and many other pirouettes). It is not easy to break out of codified technique as many positions look "wrong" when you see them first. Yeah, but it is fun :-) Link to comment
Recommended Posts