another pirouette thread

[Guest pink tights]

Suggestions?

[lampwick]

Don't open the arms to second. It's old fashioned and tends to make people do exactly what you describe...throws the leading shoulder out.

 

I'm half kidding. Some teachers still want this. Honestly, it throws me off too. I don't see why any dancer, especially female, should have to prepare to turn this way. It's an extraneous movement and makes it hard to control the back.

[Victoria Leigh]

lampwick, there are two distinctly different theories of pirouettes en dehors, depending on the position of the arms in the preparation. When using the straight front arm in the 4th position preparation, then no, there is NO à la seconde. The arms come directly into first position. However, when using the rounded front arm, there is an à la seconde, but it is not a "throw the arm side" thing. It is an integral part of using the back muscles for the turn. The torso initiates the movement, the arms go to second as you move into the turn, and the leading arm remains there but the other side comes around and connects to it, creating the first position. It is a true circular movement into a turn, the same as that used for en dedans pirouettes, and it works very well if done properly.

[lampwick]

Yes, I've seen this pirouette done well. Usually by people with absolutely beautiful backs. It's certainly a worthwhile approach, and I always try different feelings. I'll work on this and try to think of the circular feeling it makes. Maybe I'll refine my use of the back by working on it.

 

I rarely see a professional female dancer who turns this way, but I can think of a few who do. Whatever works well and is appropriate to the style of dancing is fine to me. I was being glib...

[Guest pink tights]

I can't seem to isolate WHY I throw the shoulder. Just an bad habit, perhaps?

[Victoria Leigh]

Yes, the straight arm preparation has become very prominent. I find it extremely unattractive, and the worst thing about it is that the straight arm is being carried to second, creating a straight, flat line of the arms which is not only unattractive but incorrect, as à la seconde is a gently rounded arm position, not a palm down flat line. It gets even worse when this is used in turns en diagonal and in fouettés. Most dancers today, including professionals, are not being corrected on this and if you watch their arms in these turns they are angular and totally lack the circular movement and fluidity that it creates. Sometimes it looks like they are doing some form of karate.

[Victoria Leigh]

pinktights, it sounds like a coordination thing. Motivate the turn from the torso and the legs, not the arms. Practice it with quarter and half turns until the body understands the coordination of the relevé around the corner onto your center, with any throwing of the arms anywhere.

[Guest pink tights]

Thank you, Ms. Leigh. I'll work on that quarter turn technique ( I tell my dd to do it--I should practice what I preach)--I'm taking class with a new teacher next week (regular teacher on holiday), hopefully I will have that 'lightbulb' moment between going back to quarter turns and a fresh prospective from the guest teacher.

[Clara 76]

Shall we move this thread to the Adult Ballet Student's forum?

There might be some more responses there

Clara 76

[Victoria Leigh]

Oh my goodness, yes! Thank you. No clue why I didn't do that days ago. Asleep on this one. I'll move it right now!

[dianec]

Whenever I start throwing my pirouettes as you describe, pink tights, (which is very often!) what helps me is thinking about the up rather than the around. Sometimes even not turning put just going up onto demi pointe or pointe in preparation, and then having another go. I don't dissect my arm movements, though, so you've got me thinking about that.

[kasaba]

I did a pirouette, once . . . by accident . . . anyway, has anybody else read what Finis Jhung says about it on his website? and if so, what does he mean, practically speaking, about thinking down rather than up?

[Guest pink tights]

Down to go up--push against the floor.

[Susanne]

With the risk of sounding silly, but I don't understand the question.

 

What position is 4th of the arms? Is it the one where one arm is in 1st and the other arm in 2nd? (I have only been taught 3 positions of arms, and then Grand Pose and Petit Pose) Is the problem you are talking about when the arm in 1st opens slightly while the one in 2nd closes and then both arms end up in 1st while body turning towards the arm that originally was in 1st en dehors?

 

Is it the "opens slightly" that creates the throwing shoulder?