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Ms. KLS

dance steps eliminated from lexicon

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Nova Ganova
Tonight my class nominated pas de basque battu for elimination.

 

How about Grand Pas de Basque en DEDANS from 5th position Epp.Croise to 5th position Epp croise.

I saw it in Vaganova Ballet Academy exams. :nixweiss:

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Nova Ganova
They are in a LOT of Balanchine ballets, but I don't think they were used in the Romantic period :nixweiss:

 

L.Dupre (1697-1774) was performing that step just before the Preromantic time in Ballet. It would not have survived if not used in the Romantic period, I guess.

If I remember correct, Forsythe using G. in the Thrill of Exactitude...So G. is going to be around for some time.

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Mel Johnson

Consider that Giselle comes down to us today largely thanks to the agency of the 1884 revival by Marius Petipa, so I don't know if the gargouilliade found there is original Perrot or not.

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Nova Ganova
Consider that Giselle comes down to us today largely thanks to the agency of the 1884 revival by Marius Petipa, so I don't know if the gargouilliade found there is original Perrot or not.

 

Most of the steps danced in the first act by principals - original Perrot.

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Mel Johnson

Were you there, Charlie? And talking to Petipa about gargouilliades?

 

"Most" such a mutable term. 50% plus 1 equals "most".

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Hans

Re: Giselle, I think many of us might find this enlightening--PNB is staging a "Giselle" based on the 1903 Stepanov notation: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/11925622

 

There's a particularly lovely passage during the adagio that I'm really glad is being restored.

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Mel Johnson

That's right, and if only Arthur de St.-Léon had invented his notation earlier, and notated the original production, we could quantify the two and make a direct comparison, but he didn't, so we can't. We can trust that the old reliable Old Dancer Network preserves choreography exactly, but we can't be totally sure.

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Nova Ganova
That's right, and if only Arthur de St.-Léon had invented his notation earlier, and notated the original production, we could quantify the two and make a direct comparison, but he didn't, so we can't. We can trust that the old reliable Old Dancer Network preserves choreography exactly, but we can't be totally sure.

 

Do you know about Notation that was made 1860-s in Paris Opera?

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Mel Johnson

Of Giselle? Yes, I'm aware of it, but never saw it. Notation (especially the early sort) is like portrait painting. I get a real lift out of people who say that a portrait of George Washington looks just like him. (I knew him well) :devil:

 

Later notations like Laban and Benesh are more empirical, and less subject to the notator's prejudices, but the old stuff is really tough to figure out. That's why there are different versions of La Vivandière pas de six. St.-Léon published it, but the interpretation is left to the reader. There are at least three different versions currently performed. I THINK I agree most with Maria Grandy's version, but then I wasn't there! :shrug:

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Nova Ganova
Re: Giselle, I think many of us might find this enlightening--PNB is staging a "Giselle" based on the 1903 Stepanov notation: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/11925622

 

There's a particularly lovely passage during the adagio that I'm really glad is being restored.

 

The book that was written by M.Smith about Giselle is great!

I forgot the title (I was reading the one from the library).

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Hans

Let us also not forget that a good deal has happened to ballet, both in Russia and in the rest of the world, since the 1860's, and even since the deaths of Petipa and Vaganova. :devil: There are plenty of steps now commonly used for the principal dancers in Giselle by the Mariinsky and Bolshoi (as well as other companies) that clearly have nothing to do with Romantic-era ballet. I know the Mariinsky in particular likes to claim that all of its Petipa ballets have survived perfectly intact since their premieres, and it's a lovely myth, but unfortunately even a cursory study of ballet history shows it to be impossible.

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Nova Ganova
Of Giselle? Yes, I'm aware of it, but never saw it. Notation (especially the early sort) is like portrait painting. I get a real lift out of people who say that a portrait of George Washington looks just like him. (I knew him well) :devil:

 

Later notations like Laban and Benesh are more empirical, and less subject to the notator's prejudices, but the old stuff is really tough to figure out. That's why there are different versions of La Vivandière pas de six. St.-Léon published it, but the interpretation is left to the reader. There are at least three different versions currently performed. I THINK I agree most with Maria Grandy's version, but then I wasn't there! :shrug:

 

I have it - 236 pages of drowings made in 1860-s. Black and Red color.

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Mel Johnson
I have it - 236 pages of drowings made in 1860-s. Black and Red color.

 

Good for you! I certainly wish that I had something like that in my library.

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Nova Ganova
Let us also not forget that a good deal has happened to ballet, both in Russia and in the rest of the world, since the 1860's, and even since the deaths of Petipa and Vaganova. :devil: There are plenty of steps now commonly used for the principal dancers in Giselle by the Mariinsky and Bolshoi (as well as other companies) that clearly have nothing to do with Romantic-era ballet. I know the Mariinsky in particular likes to claim that all of its Petipa ballets have survived perfectly intact since their premieres, and it's a lovely myth, but unfortunately even a cursory study of ballet history shows it to be impossible.

 

Misconception. Even in Soviet time in all the ballet history books it was explained who added what and when (Volynsky,F.Lopuchov, Blok,Krasovskaya, Slonimsky, Gaevsky etc.). And the moment there was original choreography, russians are always mentioning that. They were adding new variations (famous variation of Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty and Raymonda that used literally everywhere, were choreographed by my teacher of Acting Skills - Konstantin Sergeyev. Variation of Corsair and La Bayadere was choreographed by V.Chabukiani ). But most of the existed variations were kept the way they were. It was so natural for Vaganova to just pass them the way she danced them herself. That is the case with all the dancers.

 

Tradition is very real thing. My teacher was student of Vaganova and Romanova (same as V.Volkova). And Vaganova worked with Petipa.

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Mel Johnson
Let us also not forget that a good deal has happened to ballet, both in Russia and in the rest of the world, since the 1860's, and even since the deaths of Petipa and Vaganova. :devil: There are plenty of steps now commonly used for the principal dancers in Giselle by the Mariinsky and Bolshoi (as well as other companies) that clearly have nothing to do with Romantic-era ballet. I know the Mariinsky in particular likes to claim that all of its Petipa ballets have survived perfectly intact since their premieres, and it's a lovely myth, but unfortunately even a cursory study of ballet history shows it to be impossible.

 

Yes, indeed, Hans, thank you for that. The spread of research into historical dance has re-discovered a good many steps that remained in disuse for well over a hundred years. One that comes sharply to mind is the pas de chaconne; there's one version in 3/4 and one in 4/4, and they're rather different. I suspect that because the 3/4 version was written down as being "suitable also for the passacaglia" that it's the older. The 4/4 seems to come from the 19th century. There's even a simple version of two steps and a chassé which is the newest of all, maybe 20th century.

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