Grande Port De Bras

[l321385]

Two teachers have been telling me different things. One says to go all the way down making a 90 degree angle with your body to the front looking down at the ground. This is for the "reverse"( not to the back since most of us can't go that far). The other said not to go all the way down, and just do a little bit mostly for the upper back. I know that there is more then one way to do things, but if I were to audition which one should I use? Is one another style? I mostly do Vaganova but we have one teacher here who is more familiar with R.A.D

[Victoria Leigh]

In an audition you do what is shown by the teacher. If not shown, I think the most common would be to go all the way down.

[vrsfanatic]

I am confused...what does all the way down?

...This is for the "reverse"( not to the back since most of us can't go that far). The other said not to go all the way down, and just do a little bit mostly for the upper back...

 

I just cannot picture what you are asking!

 

Grand port de bras/6th port de bras does not bend at the waist at all in Vaganova schooling with the "bend" to the front. Maybe you are discussing 3rd port de bras? Do you mean the one that standing on two feet in a position of the feet, the body bends forward and backwards with the arms traveling from 2nd, through preparatory to over head (3rd or 5th) and finishes open to second?

 

Of course, as Ms. Leigh said, you do what you are asked to do and accept that there is more than one way to do many things in ballet.

[Victoria Leigh]

I have no idea what she is talking about if it is not a cambré forward! I just assumed that was what she meant.

[l321385]

Maybe I am not saying the correct terms. Let me try again.

 

Do you know how usually during plies you do a Cambre foward and back? What is the one where you go toward ever single corner in the room. You go cambre down , to the side, then to the back and then stand straight. You go in a great big circle. Then the reverse of it.

[Victoria Leigh]

That would just be a circular cambré, and yes, you can do it bending all the way forward, side, back, and side, or, it could be done as more of a torso, arms and head only, with less bend. That would be the teachers' choice, and both ways would be correct. It should be made quite clear in the demonstration at an audition in terms of which is expected, as one is really more of a port de bras exercise and the other more of a cambré exercise.

[vrsfanatic]

321385 academically speaking, in Vaganova, that port de bras does not exist. The most similar one (yet different) is the 6th port de bras, which is done in the centre of the room only.

 

The confusion may stem from the fact that the forward and back port de bras/3rd is done differently in Vaganova initially than in other schools of teaching. If a Vaganova trained teacher looks at a circular port de bras, without knowing what it is then I can see the confusion for sure.

 

As Ms Leigh says, watch carefully and do what the teacher says or demonstrates. Since you do recognize the differences in what the teachers want, you are 10 steps ahead! It could be interesting to learn the whys of both ways from yur teachers. Teachers usually have very interesting reasons why they do things the way they do!

[Doubleturn]

"Knock knock" - may I add a comment? The small circular port de bras which Miss Leigh describes above was taught to me by a Russian teacher (she was taught by a pupil of Vaganova) as a "rond de buste". I often use it at the end of class as part of a ports de bras and reverence sequence. When teaching it, I ask the pupils to actually think of the sort of statue/sculpture known as a "bust" - then they can visualise which part of the upper body is involved.

[Victoria Leigh]

Now that is a term I have never heard before! How interesting. Rond de buste. Hmmm.....well, it makes sense.

[vrsfanatic]

Thank you Doubleturn for your input. Of course the movement exists in ballet and it is indeed a part of 6th port de bras, in a way, however not as was described by l321385. I chose not to add more confusion to the fire in the hope that the student might go to each of her teachers to figure out what the confusion actually is. Without the student understanding the differences between the 3rd port de bras Vaganova and cambres forward and back as used in the US (do not know how it is used in the UK), the reference points for me are too vast. Perhaps my choices were not complete enough. One would have to understand the bends of the body, forward, side ways and backwards before the circular movement could be done well.

 

Your description is excellent and of course advisable.

Edited October 19, 2006 by vrsfanatic

[Doubleturn]

Just to clarify the situation in the UK - as far as I know there is no formal Vaganova based teaching syllabus or society here anymore. The teacher I mentioned above and other expatriate Russians had formed a Society that was active from about 1960 through to mid 1990s. It was always small and as the older generation retired and passed on, the numbers were no longer enough for it to be viable. All my early training was through this teacher and society, based on Vaganova's teaching principles, but without set exercises. I still try to pass on all I learnt to my pupils although I also teach RAD syllabus for exams.

[l321385]

I went to each one of my teachers and asked which one each wanted. All but one teacher wanted the "normal" circular Cambré ( I had to copy and paste to get the accent on the E).

The other one said she wanted us to warm up our lower back so that is why she wanted us to bend from the lower back instead of the upper back only. Our school is Vaganova based, but I realized now that I sit down and think about the teaching styles of each one, we have different styles. We have one teacher who danced with NYCB so that would be Balanchine, one danced with ABT so that would be...?, another danced with Royal Ballet etc...

[Victoria Leigh]

Yes, you certainly do have a mix of teachers! The ABT dancer could have been trained in almost any method, as the company has dancers from all over the world.

 

There is a Sticky topic in the How to do things forum that explains how to do the accent marks. They are different on laptops and desktops, but otherwise are consistent. Easiest way is to print out that list and keep it handy!