airchild Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I have often heard the expression "engage your abdominal muscles" - but how does that actually work? Some of my teachers use the phrase: "hold your tummy in" or "suck in your belly". How do I do that without feeling stiff/unable to breathe? I don't have a naturally flat belly and sometimes my teachers would press it with her hands to make me see how it is to "suck in" the belly. But it occurs to me quite an unnatural act. Can someone please enlighten me as what I should do to achieve the correct posture in regard to the belly? Quote Link to comment
Clara 76 Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I think first you have to understand alignment before you can really engage the abdominals. Take a look at my Sticky at the top of the Adult Ballet Students Forum; try it out to be sure you are understanding proper alignment. One of the biggest things you will need to be doing, in order to engage the abs, is to be lifting the ribcage up off of the hips, equally around the body. What that does you will probably feel first; the band of abdominal muscles that supports the ribcage will naturally become engaged and may feel tired all the way round that area, including your back. From there, it is a matter of learning to identify your 6 abdominals: I am going to now steal from various webpages for a better definition: From About.com- The abdominal muscles are a group of 6 muscles that extend from various places on the ribs to various places on the pelvis. They provide movement and support to the trunk, often called the core. They also assist in the breathing process. From Fitstep.com- The Abdominals are composed of several muscles: the Rectus Abdominus, Transverse Abdominus, and the External and Internal Obliques. The Abdominal muscles sit on the front and sides of the lower half of the torso, originating along the rib cage and attaching along the pelvis. The Rectus Abdominus muscle is commonly known as the "six-pack" muscle of the abs. Thin bands of connective tissue give it that appearance. The Transverse Abdominus (also known as the Transversus) is the deepest muscle of the core (meaning it's underneath all the other muscles). It wraps laterally around the abdominal area. The fibers of External and Internal Obliques run diagonally on the body, allowing for angled movement. And this link:nismat.org which may help introduce you to your abdominals! So bottom line- if your ribs are not lifted up, you will not be able to breathe. There. Now why the heck didn't I just say that, right????? Quote Link to comment
airchild Posted February 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hi Clara, Thanks for your reply! I do lift my ribcage and engage my back muscles. But the tummy still protrudes as it is my fat So, is there something wrong with that? I feel that my teacher is trying to make me suck in the tummy in an unnatural fashion so that I have the "lean look" of a ballet dancer. But is that necessary? Quote Link to comment
Clara 76 Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Yes, it is necessary for the strength required for ballet, for the muscles to be in the best shape possible. Therefore, perhaps supplementing ballet with some cardio exercise to help burn fat, and some pilates might help? Quote Link to comment
~ Mimi ~ Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 So bottom line- if your ribs are not lifted up, you will not be able to breathe. There. So THAT is where the air goes?!!! I've been wondering how I was supposed to combine 'pressing your belly button to your spine' with 'keeping your ribs closed', and still somehow not falling over in acute ballet-induced hypoxia! Thanks so much Clara 76, you just helped me out in a major way!!! (why isn't there a :runsofftopractice: smiley?) Quote Link to comment
airchild Posted February 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Yes, it is necessary for the strength required for ballet, for the muscles to be in the best shape possible. Therefore, perhaps supplementing ballet with some cardio exercise to help burn fat, and some pilates might help? Thanks Clara. So, as long as I have the right alignment - to deal with the protruding stomach, it is much better to burn that fat instead of forcing my stomach in, isn't it? Running off to do some crunches now Quote Link to comment
Clara 76 Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 To Mimi- Yes! When ballet teachers are telling you to "close your ribs" what they really mean is "lift-off equally in back and in front, and keep the ribcage correctly aligned." People tend to protrude their ribs forward thus making teachers say, "close ribs" when they might be missing that the problem is that the ribcage is pushed out forward, and therefore, out of proper alignment. To airchild- Pilates may work better than crunches, because when doing crunches, people tend to protrude the muscles out, as opposed to working them the opposite way, as in Pilates. But either way- yes, do have your muscles in shape. Your ballet will improve! Quote Link to comment
Redbookish Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 One of my teachers used to be an anatomy nut -- she'd try to get us thinking about our skeletons/bones rather than just the muscles, and her correction re abdominals was always 'Navel to backbone.' What I tokk from that was a visualiation of my ribs going round to attach to my spine, and trying to think about flattening out my ribs sideways, while holding my navel towards my spine. You can still breathe with that kind of 'held' feeling, as your diaphragm is above your navel. And thinking navel to backbone stops the ribs splaying out. Outside of ballet class, I do a bit of work on the floor in 'constructive rest' or 'semi-supine' position -- flat back on the floor, feet flat on the floor, knees bent, and pelvis neutral. You can then use gravity to help you feel that 'navel to backbone' and feel the ribs flattening out on the floor, and your breathing sending your abdominal muscles sideways -- rather than up & down, which can put your alignment out when you're standing up. So I try to get the feeling of abdominals 'held' rather than 'sucked in' because, as you say, you have to breathe as well! Quote Link to comment
olddude Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Hi Clara,Thanks for your reply! I do lift my ribcage and engage my back muscles. But the tummy still protrudes as it is my fat So, is there something wrong with that? I feel that my teacher is trying to make me suck in the tummy in an unnatural fashion so that I have the "lean look" of a ballet dancer. But is that necessary? I've had the exact same feeling for the first several years of taking ballet classes - and also I've been getting the exact same corrections, so I think I know what you mean! I kept wondering even when trying my hardest, why on earth would teacher after teacher tell you to do something so completely unnatural and virtually impossible?! However, I have finally achieved enough abdominal conditioning , and gotten enough specific instruction and exercises, that I feel this in my body much better. And it turns out that my teacher really is "trying to make me suck in the tummy in an unnatural fashion so that I have the "lean look" of a ballet dancer" - and it has nothing to do with mistaking fat for muscle, and it's not really unnatural, and yes it is necessary. The belly button, or at least the hard muscle somewhere in there behind it, really does go surprisingly far back. After a career in a swivel chair it really does seem unnatural Here's the exercise that clarified it the best for me (your mileage may vary!): Lie on your back, knees bent, feet on the floor. Put a hand over your stomach area, and "suck in the gut". Now lift the feet just off the floor (or do a crunch) and feel how your belly pops right up. Those are the wrong abs! (Are they the Rectus Abdominus?) You want the ones lower down and deeper in (Transversus?). Try again, lifting just one foot barely off the ground while keeping the belly sucked it. It's much more difficult, because it uses those other abs instead. Don't even think of trying to do this with both feet! Well, at least I should not - maybe in a few more years if I keep up with at least 3 Pilates classes a week... Once I had the feeling, I could try to engage those abs during class. And if I hold it that way (not easy!), my pirouette is suddenly much more stable. That's how I know (for me at least) it really is necessary. Now if I could just learn to spot at the same time ... Quote Link to comment
Clara 76 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Great post, olddude! Quote Link to comment
airchild Posted March 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 Thanks a lot, olddude! I tried the exercise you described and it really helps to put things into perspective! Also, I did not relate having strong abdominal muscles with the ability to do pirouttes. No wonder I still cannot do a stable piroutte every time I try. It gives me more motivation to work on the deep ab muscles now. Thanks again! Edited to remove unnecessary repeat of previous post. Quote Link to comment
Andre Yew Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 I have a big problem with this, too. A good image that helps me engage the right muscles is to think of a zipper that starts from below your belly button up to the bottom of your ribcage, and zipping it up. A similar image is a corset being pulled tight. As has been mentioned, it's not only the front that's important, it's the entire middle section front, side, and back, and that's the transversus abdominis working --- it's like a corset around your midsection. Another thing that helps me with my alignment is correct breathing. My ribs close and get aligned if I think about expanding the sides and back of my ribcage when I inhale. Some of this stuff is subtle, and finding someone who can watch and help you with this is invaluable. --Andre Quote Link to comment
Clara 76 Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Excellent post Andre, but I must correct one tiny thing: the ribs can't close, per se. It's just not possible. The ribcage can be held aloft and in alignment, which is what we want in classical ballet, but close? No. So sorry but I hear teachers say that too, and the end result is a dropping of the ribcage towards the pelvis in front, which we all know is wrong. many times what teachers say, and what they really mean, are 2 very different things; but if that's what their teachers said to them...... Hope you understand!! Quote Link to comment
Andre Yew Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Thanks! I didn't know that. --Andre Quote Link to comment
Mazenderan Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Excellent post Andre, but I must correct one tiny thing: the ribs can't close, per se. It's just not possible. The ribcage can be held aloft and in alignment, which is what we want in classical ballet, but close? No. I got this correction in class recently. I tried closing my ribs while looking in the mirror at home and my ribcage definitely got narrower. Am I doing something anatomically weird? Quote Link to comment
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