The Retiré during Pirouette

[airchild]

I hope this is not a dumb technique question, but here goes: Where should the foot be placed during the pirouette?

 

I have just recently noticed - while watching video footages of some of the greatest ballerinas of the 20th century - that during pirouettes, the working leg's foot's arch is cupping the kneecap of the supporting leg, with the entire box of the pointe shoe sticking out beyond the lateral side of the knee.

 

However, when I first learned to do the pirouette, my teacher taught me that the toes should be placed right underneath the kneecap. That means, no toes sticking out beyond the knee. I wonder if my technique has been wrong throughout, or are there different ways to place the foot when in retiré? Is it a matter of fashion? I mean, those videos I saw were from the 50s and 60s. But I have seen contemporary dancers do the same, too.

 

Also, another related question is: How do you keep the working foot in retiré long enough? Mine always collapse half-way in a turn I was wondering if it would help if I place my foot farther in like the way I described above. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Victoria Leigh]

The position of retiré you learn at the barre is the one that should be used for pirouette. Barre work generally consists of quite a number of retirés, some on the way to développé, but many mainly for the purpose of establishing the position which will be used for pirouettes. Balancing at the barre in that position is all about training your body for where it needs to be in a pirouette!

 

That said, in the period of the videos you were watching, the slightly overcrossed leg was used for partnered pirouettes, and even sometimes when not partnered. This has generally changed over the years to either just the toe under the knee, or even more often the toe more to the medial edge of the knee and slightly higher than it would be if under the kneecap.

 

You also see some dancers today with the leg higher than the knee, actually ON the thigh. I don't have a clue why anyone would do this, as it never looks good. It breaks the line, and almost always causes the foot to sickle. Not a good position at all, IMO.

[Myfairlady]

That is not a dumb question.

[airchild]

Ms Leigh,

Thanks a lot for shedding light on this subject!

[Claude_Catastrophique]

I was also taught to place the toes right underneath the kneecap during a pirouette. I don't really have any advice for your problem (I think our balletmasters here can help you better) but I just can tell you from personal experience that I must feel the toe touching my leg otherwise I lose my form and kick myself out of balance. I mean, I always make sure that my toe goes as a fast as possible up to the right position and touches the leg softly (so that I can feel it through the whole movement (goes also for piqué))

[spingirl]

Also, another related question is: How do you keep the working foot in retiré long enough? Mine always collapse half-way in a turn I was wondering if it would help if I place my foot farther in like the way I described above. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

I also tend to drop my foot partway through the turn. My teacher says we have to remember that the turn has to be complete before the foot comes down. So I'm thinking that it's more a matter of visualization than anything else. As soon as I started to turn, I was already thinking about how I was going to end (in 5th, in 4th, etc) and, as we're learning more and more, the body follows the mind. Now I try to think about completing the turn, THEN how I'm going to end. I also find that if I'm concentrating on keeping the bent knee pressed back all the way through the turn, my foot doesn't move.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Lisa

[Victoria Leigh]

Yes, the turn must finish up, and then go to 5th or 4th, or wherever the retiré leg is going, by decision. In other words, you must continue to spiral upward until you decide to lift yoursef to the ending position. And yes, Lisa, continuing the rotation of the retiré is critical in achieving this.

[airchild]

Thanks, everybody, for your tips and advice!

[diane]

It is interesting that in some schools - ? Shanghai, for one ;), if the videos I have seen are any reference - as well as some state ones over here, the foot is supposed to be above the knee-cap, on the lower part of the thigh.

 

I had not been taught that way ever, and have actually only rather recently noticed it being used often.

(my body does not do that well, esp. at this age)

My daughter is being taught this way at her academy now.

 

-d-

[Victoria Leigh]

I'm sorry, but I find that position to be most unattractive, even if someone can do it without sickling the foot and lifting the hip, which would be highly unusual.

[Mazenderan]

I actually find retiré to be a very difficult position to attain. I have hypermobility around the hips and lumbar. I've just managed to stop my leg waving about in its socket in grande battement a la seconde, although I can still sometimes allow my leg to 'get behind me' in développé a la seconde. When I retiré, my knee is very much out to side at 90 degrees - but it's very hard to hold it there, and almost impossible in centre floor.

 

Is there any retiré position that would make it easier for me to hold the position, or would help me build up strength?

[Clara 76]

Try balancing in retiré facing the barre. Take your hands off and try to maintain the position as long as you can. Do that every day.

 

There isn't any position that's going to build anything; just slow and steady development of the muscles by your brain and a good teacher.

[ripresa]

I'm sorry, but I find that position to be most unattractive, even if someone can do it without sickling the foot and lifting the hip, which would be highly unusual.

 

Our teacher was mentioning that the NYC ballet folks do it that way. Lifting it as high as possible until 90 degrees (without twisting the hip of course).

[Victoria Leigh]

The side of the knee, if you have that flexibility, at 90º, is fine. It's ABOVE that, which it is if you put it on the thigh, that does not work.