Stretching Question

[Trysden]

I realize that this topic has been discussed exhaustively here and I even downloaded the awesome book by Brad Appleton linked from this forum. BUT - if you kind people would allow me to distill a fraction of what is posted here to a few simple questions based on your personal experience, I'd be much appreciative.

 

My hamstrings are tight and need some work. Other than those, I'm relatively good.

 

1. How much progress can one expect to see in terms of gained inches on the stretch say per week, month or year? I realize it is infinitely variable - so I am inquiring about personal experience from adult dancers that got started from scratch and went on to make solid gains in this area. I'd like to see if I can get an average feel from you all.

 

2. What is a good number of times to stretch hamstrings each day? 1-2-3 times per day or every hour? (It is an easy thing for me to stretch any number of times.)

 

3. I realize 20 seconds (from the book) is best to hold the stretch. But - how many reps are good in a single session?

 

My goal is to do the most good with max effort and not injure myself - but also not waste my time doing "one set" when "six" or "nine" would have been much more productive.

 

Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to inquire of your experience!

 

Trysden

 

PS. Does running or aerobics negate gains made in these stretching activities? I do lots of aerobics and suspect this may be why my hamstrings are so tight.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Trysden

[Chronus24]

Oops, nevermind, I see you already found the other thread, my bad!

[Garyecht]

I want to emphasize that in something like a stretching program when it comes to progress and method, individual differences plays by far and away the biggest role in improvement. This means that what works for someone may or may not work out as well for someone else. I believe (as do almost every good coach that I have ever spoken to) that when you try to copy someone else’s routine, you just wind up with a poor copy.

 

Having said that, I’ll talk about my personal experiences and observations with respect to the questions raised.

 

1. How much improvement to expect. This cannot be answered. There are just too many factors that need to go into creating a reasonable expectation. The key variables are age (less improvement with increasing age), time spent stretching (more time, more improvement), how flexible you were when you started flexibility training (less flexible start means more improvement), and body type (muscular body type will show less improvement). If you stretch regularly, you will improve your flexibility, or maintain your flexibility if you are already quite flexible. I should also say that I don’t believe in creating expectations based on what happens to other people. In my mind that creates a personal expectation that really isn’t realistic. It’s either too easy or too difficult for the majority of people.

 

2. How often to stretch. As often as you can. I know I have felt more flexible during times when I was stretching a lot during the day. As an example, while watching TV doing a couple of stretches during each commercial. That’s in addition to the usual stretching I do. I don’t know if I am really more flexible as a result of doing that, but I do feel like I am. Unfortunately for me, I don’t do this regularly. I’m too lazy.

 

3. How long to hold a stretch, how many reps. I’ve done just about everything and would say again there is no answer. It depends on my mood. If you hold a stretch for a long time (like 5 minutes), clearly you aren’t going to repeat that very often or at all. If you are doing something like a Vinyaysa yoga approach (essentially holding a pose for a breath or two), you are going to do some repetitions. I don’t think repetitions are important one way or another. What matters more is the total time spent stretching. Right at this moment, I only hold a position for a breath or two, but make the movement continuous, just as if were a dance. Two years ago, I was holding positions for 3-5 minutes. I just changed because I got tired of doing the old stuff.

 

4. Does running or aerobics hinder? In general degree of flexibility is independent of what one does, assuming that one stretches regularly. My experience is that people who like playing most sports and have something of a muscular body type tend to hate stretching and do very little of it. Consequently, they wind up not very flexible. One of my old weightlifting training partners was quite muscular and could do the splits. But then he liked to stretch and did a lot of stretching in addition to weightlifting.

[Trysden]

Garyecht - thanks very much for the very comprehensive review - I appreciate it! I especially benefoted by your final discussion on athletic types and your experiences. I have not heard any of this before!

 

Trysden

[Mazenderan]

I think the degree and speed of improvements in a stretching program are dependent on individual body type. I noticed results very quickly when I tried the Brad Appleton exercises, but I have hypermobility around my hips and lumbar - and so may have been predisposed to benefit quickly from such exercises.

 

As regards how often you ought to stretch your hamstrings throughout the day, I would be cautious. I got into the habit, a while ago, of stretching my hamstrings frequently during the day. The result was the I really aggravated the tendon up around the ischial tuberosity. It was a really limiting injury, and I had to be very careful about extension heights for a good while to avoid exacerbating it.

 

Would it be possible for you to visit a physiotherapist about your hamstrings? Before I visited the physio I always thought I was tight and inflexible. When I went to see the physio, he said that the illusion of tightness was actually due to my muscles and tendons working overtime to compensate for my relaxed ligaments. He said that the flexibility at my lumbar was ridiculous, and set me a series of strengthening exercises for my back, hips, etc, rather than any stretches. Had I not visited the physio, I'd have gone on stretching and overstretching, exacerbating the issue rather than resolving it. It's just a thought, before you embark on any regime.

[Balletbabe32]

As long as you stretch out after your aerobic workouts and make sure to never stretch cold, I see no reason why you can't make some progress with it.

[jimpickles]

My views - which I have given before -

 

You cant do better than getting "Stretching and Flexibility" by Kit Laughlin (Simon and Schuster) - it beats Brad Appreton hands down. Full of wisdom and good exercises, targeted at the mature adult (to which the comments below apply).

 

"I realize that this topic has been discussed exhaustively here and I even downloaded the awesome book by Brad Appleton linked from this forum.

 

1. How much progress can one expect to see in terms of gained inches on the stretch say per week, month or year?"

 

Depends on age and other factors, but you are probably looking at inches per few months, or per year.

 

2. What is a good number of times to stretch hamstrings each day? 1-2-3 times per day or every hour? (It is an easy thing for me to stretch any number of times.)

 

Do HARD stretches, such as are needed to increase your range - in no more than 2 sessions /week. The muscles need to recover and to remodel to the new length in between stretches. Doing it too often will lead to irritability and increasing tightness. Use the Contract-Relax method (a form of PNF stretching to obtain a hard stretch - as decribed in Kit Laughlin's book).

 

Gentle "limbering" - getting back to a range that you have already achieved when warmed up - such as you need to do to be in shape for a class - can be done as often as you like - but will not lead to an overall increase in range, except maybe very slowly.

 

3. I realize 20 seconds (from the book) is best to hold the stretch. But - how many reps are good in a single session?

 

5 reps seem about best, in one or two sets of HARD stretches. I think 30 seconds per stretch is better than 20.

 

PS. Does running or aerobics negate gains made in these stretching activities? I do lots of aerobics and suspect this may be why my hamstrings are so tight.

 

Only because you dont stretch afterwards. Always after working your muscles hard, take them to their full length in a stretch afterwards.

 

Jim.

[Trysden]

Group - I REALLY REALLY REALLY appreciate all your advice. It is incredibly helpful. I have printed it out and will be putting it in my binder. Thanks for everything!

 

Trysden

[Redbookish]

Trysden, you ask quite specific questions, and seem to want to work in a fairly scientific & quantitative manner. It may also be useful to try to tune in to your body internally -- one of my ballet teachers used to get us to close our eyes and visualise our spines, bone by bone, and trying to connect that mental image with how we felt inside, for example.

 

Rather than work to just these external goals, measured in inches or whatever, it might help also to stay quiet and tune into your body at some times, so you learn what works for you. I always like to have a quiet time before class for example, to warm up & do limbering stretches (I'm fairly flexible & physiotherapists call me "hyperflexible" but that's from a non-dance perspective). Although often this is the catch up chatty time with the people I dance wth before barre begins, I like to stay quiet (a rare feat for me) and often stretch out with closed eyes to really try to focus in.

 

My emphasis is less on how many more inches higher do I stretch the leg, or how much flatter along the floor I get my chest as an external measurement, but feeling the alignment & stretch as it works internally. Breathing is terrifically important at this point as well.

 

It sounds like if you could get a few quiet moments after aerobic exercise, you could get that deep stretching jimpickles talks of, and start to learn what's stretchy for your body, and get the stretching really working for you.

[Trysden]

Redbookish - I really appreciated that angle - something I had not hear from anyone else before. It seems like a very powerful internalizing technique that focuses on the true individual need rather than the "lets crank out ten of these" routine. Very awesome, thanks!

 

Trysden

[dancesmith]

I wholeheartedly second Redbookish's recommendations. Her approach is what I have been using for years, long before I started ballet. It is so important to learn to listen to your own body. As others have said, there is no magic formula for the number of stretches, the length they are held, the amount of stretch you can gain, etc. All of our bodies start out differently and then because of life experiences, they get even more different. I am generally very skeptical of any arbitrary “one-size fits all” answers to anything that involves the physical complexity of human bodies (not even including the mental and emotional components that can have significant impacts on our ability to perform).

 

Like you, I read all the various sources and listen to the experience of others as food for thought and background, but then I must put it all aside and listen to my own body as to how any of it might apply. I wish I could tell you this was an easy thing to do and while it’s not difficult, it takes time and patience. I really like Redbookish advice about spending quiet time with your body. In my experience, your own body will generally be the best source of advice on what it needs to respond the way you want it to.

 

Now if I could just learn to listen to the music ……Back to the musicality thread.

[irishprincess]

Here's a question along these lines......after a pulled muscle is healing.....how long should you wait before stretching again?

 

I have a muscle that is always slightly irritated at me in my right thigh. No matter how much I prep, stretch, whatever, occasionally, it just gets mad and pulls. I try to let it heal, but I feel what little flexibility I have fading away. I've pulled muscles in my hips too. Anyway, when is too soon to start stretching again?

[Clara 76]

irish- that's a question for Health & Nutrition.

[irishprincess]

Yes mam! *grins and moves the question thence*

[Clara 76]