double pirouttes help

[ripresa]

I'm starting to be more consistent in my single pirouttes (which is a major thing for me since I usually hide behind the "a jumper, not turner" excuse).

 

And I think I would like to start learning on how to do double pirouettes... do anyone have any advice besides "just try?"

 

In my open classes, the teachers usually say: "And turn here, singles or multiples"... and people who can do multiples do it. So I've never had ballet training on how to start doing doubles. And for someone like me who always felt that my turns are behind all my other ballet ability.. any tips or teaching advice would appreciated.

 

Thank you for your time!

[Serendipity]

I don't recall being taught any particular tricks apart from making sure to stay stable (solid in the core area) in the highest demi-pointe, whipping the head as quickly as possible for spotting and keeping the passe leg turned out as far as possible.

 

 

 

Edited by Moderator to remove unneceaary quotation of previous post. Please use Add Reply or Fast Reply.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Redbookish

[MJ]

Ditto to the above. Do a pirouette without turning and hold it as long as you can. Then do one pirouette and stay up as long as you can. Do really slow turns. You are trying to increase your ability to balance as long as possible.

 

Have someone watch your pirouettes, then spend that day correcting ONE flaw, and only that flaw.

 

A couple (I do 40-50) crunches before the barre gets me ready.

[Victoria Leigh]

Serendipity, please find the FastReply or AddReply buttons, which are below the "Reply (Quote Reply) button, and then your posts will not conain the whole post prior to yours.

 

Thank you

[Guest ingve]

Hi Ripresa.

 

To me it sounds like you have to take some classes of a more basic level.

 

When you do open classes with a lot of people with various levels, most teachers have only time for general corrections that can help people maintain their knowledge, to improve in such classes you have to have greater knowledge than it sounds to me that you are having at the moment.

 

So, just try! Does not help you very much, being in classes with a too mixed level, probably either.

 

By the way, many (if not most of the ones I know) jumpers are good turners. I would not go for that excuse

 

Cheers

[Claude_Catastrophique]

We just did them. My teacher always says when you can balance for a longer time than you can do so many times turns as they fit in that time period. (not true for me lol)

 

I found out that spotting is much more important than in singles (if you do not spot clearly there, you'll get around but in doubles it is nearly impossible). I say words in my mind like An-na when I spot and I fling my head around with the beat of the words.

[Guest ingve]

Hi Claude,

 

if you could do as many turns as you could stay on balance, then how many turns must this guy be able to do? http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1498982.ece

 

(He also does these things standing on his legs, on tight rope, or on bikes)

 

The moment you are turning more than one pirouette, it has not much to do about balancing anymore, it is technique, knowledge and feeling that matters.

 

But yes, spotting is important and your preparation is essential if you want to turn properly.

 

Cheers

[Garyecht]

My memory about going from single to double pirouettes is a little vague, but I do remember some things. I know I tried doubles as soon as I could. I remember also they weren’t so good, but I kept trying. I’d listen and try to implement teacher corrections as best I could (which usually didn’t help a lot). Eventually I stopped doing singles from 4th but continued with singles from 5th. My doubles at that time were bad to say the least, but I kept with it. Slowly, but surely they got better. I was inconsistent for a long time, but again with time, patience and practice I got more and more consistent until I wound up reasonably consistent. Throughout most of this time I kept doing singles from 5th. When I decided to try doubles from fifth, my progression was much faster, though I never developed the same consistency I developed from 4th.

 

I suspect my experience is common for those of us lacking natural talent. At no point does one suddenly get it. It is an evolutionary process that requires time, patience and practice. But then that’s the fun, working like a dog on something you find difficult until you finally feel you’ve accomplished something.

[ripresa]

Thanks for all the feedback!!!

 

I'm going to try turning as slow as possible, MJ. I've already been doing releve passe balances for a while now. Adding more crunches.

 

Ingve: Thanks for the feedback. I think in general, a big problem with Open Classes is that there's no gradual linear curiculum to follow. For example, I've been taking Beginning and Elementary ballet for years.. and when I made the jump to Intermediate... it was so much harder, and there were lots of gaps of knowledge that I didn't get in the lower classes. I still occasionally take the lower classes, but they're doing quarter/half/single pirouettes only. While the intermediate class is doing whatever they feel like it.

 

Gary: When you do pirouettes from fifth is your back leg or front leg going to passe? I find it easier when my back leg go to passe.

 

Claude: Yeah, I've been practicing on my spotting by using step-turns and just keep whipping my head. I think finally loosening my head and being aware of shoulder areas was what got me my singles.

[gav]

I also take open classes, and part of the problem I had when I started trying doubles was that there weren't enough pirouette exercises to both continue to improve my singles and really go for the doubles. So, where I repeat the same pirouette twice in one exercise, I'll often do a single the first time and go for the double the second time: so, for example, chassé pas de bourrée single pirouette/chassé pas de bourrée double pirouette.

 

Also, sometimes pirouette combinations can still flow without a classically clean finish to the turn -- say, a combination with a pirouette followed immediately by a balancé. In those combinations, I find there's a lot of room to try multiples because you can right your direction in the following step. It may not be the prettiest, but you've got to start somewhere! (The opposite would be a static combination in the centre with tendus, probably with the pirouette finishing in fifth before starting the second side... For me, those are good for working on clean, clean finishes.)

 

Mostly, I think you've just got to commit and go for it, spotting and all.

[ripresa]

So just go for it?

 

I guess my question should be phrase differently...

 

What's the difference between preparing for a single pirouette vs preparing for a multiple pirouette? And what's the difference while up there?

 

More windup? More push? Faster head spotting?

[MJ]

The two things I do (and keep reminding myself to do) to make my Pirouettes better:

 

 

Pull up my kneecaps and outer thighs, this keeps my line tall and straight. Easier to stay turned out too.

 

 

Push DOWN and ever so slightly forward on my shoulders, this keeps me from falling backward.

 

 

I'm hyper-extended, so these suggestions may not work for you.

[Serendipity]

So just go for it?

 

I guess my question should be phrase differently...

 

What's the difference between preparing for a single pirouette vs preparing for a multiple pirouette? And what's the difference while up there?

 

More windup? More push? Faster head spotting?

 

Yes, yes, yes. And solid head spotting, as one of the teachers at dance camp noticed when I was doing so badly in pirouettes there. She noticed I wasn't actually focused on ONE spot. Immediately tried it again this time really concentrating on the spot and did a thousand times better!

 

Core is so important, though. If you "break" in the middle in between the first and second, or you lose your turnout, or your demi-pointe weakens, any of those can bring a problem to the turns.

 

One exercise that we did at camp was to just turn without worrying where we stopped. In other words, she didn't want us actually turning to the music or "just doing one" turn, but just put our foot down wherever we ended up. It helped us to know where we "broke" when it came to doing more than one turn (I tended to break about halfway round the second... *sigh*).

 

I also have noticed that I'm not pulling up my leg as much as I should, even though it LOOKS straight, and have asked my current, intensive teacher to keep an eye out because I often can't tell until partway through an exercise. I'm SURE that's one reason I'm feeling so unstable both at the barre and in the center. Might be something to think about with yours as well?

[Mazenderan]

Not that I can do a double, but when my teachers give instruction to those who are going to try for a double, their advice always seems to be that it's all about the spot.

[lavendergrl]

I'm working to teach doubles to my 11 year olds class this summer. My emphasis is on maintaining placement in the turn, which means No! Don't wind up. Deepen your plie, pull the "working" leg back into a well turned out retire as quickly as possible (this is your momentum), think rapid spotting "Head! Head!", and forget about turning. It's all about up. Stretch along your vertical axis. That is the key. If you think around, your body tends to lose it's placement trying to "help out" the turn, which means ending the turn sooner. If you perch on your supporting leg, floating around rather than spinning, you'll have more control. Good luck!