Transitioning between pirouette styles...

[ami1436]

I'm back dancing again and having a great time! However, my pirouettes, especially en dehors, are becoming increasingly inconsistent (as opposed to increasingly consistent!). I'm not a natural turner, but have worked hard and usually doubles are not a problem, and I was recently working on consistency in triples... but now....

 

My background training was a bit of everything, but with some Balanchine style thrown in. Thus, I originally always did pirouettes, en dehors and en dedan, from a lunged fourth position preparation. En dedans, the leg would not degage to seconde. But for the past 8-10 years, I've been required to do more 'regular' pirouettes from fourth position. For en dedans, I've used the degage more often than not, and actually have suddenly found that my en dedans pirouettes, usually less consistent than en dehors, are improving. I am able to degage or 'bring the leg straight in', although I have to really think about *not* doing the degage. Currently, I'm being asked to bring the leg straight in more often than not, but that's okay.

 

I include the en dedans discussion because I am able to get up/forward on my leg from that straight back leg - but why does this seem so hard en dehors? My teachers are not being sticklers should I choose to do a 'regular' fourth, but I'd like to stay as versatile as possible. I feel like I'm not getting up and over my leg, and I'm having a hard time starting the turn -- almost like I'm starting to turn before I get up... It's just gotta be ugly! I've tried to practice in the corner, just going into a releve, and that seems okay. It's something about the impetus for the turn and the use of that straight back leg which has left me perplexed. Any thoughts, imagery, suggestions... anything at all ... would be helpful!

 

Thanks!

[Guest ingve]

Hi Ami,

 

I will just pick up one subjeckt here.

 

You said you are a natural turner, and from the way you write, it is clear that you are not new to ballet.

 

But what is happening here is (for me) a typical over analyzing.

 

I would advice you to work more on your feeling of the momentum of the turn, and maybe even more importantly, do get a good ryhthm when you turn.

 

It is very normal for dancers, when they reach a certain level, to analyze so much of what they do. The intention is good (we have all gone through that) but it can be really contra productive.

 

Just keep it in mind, and try to simplify your ballet life a litle.

 

Ingve

[ami1436]

Hi Ingve!

 

Actually, I said I am not a natural turner - I've worked really really hard to get to this point! (My fave thing is what people usually hate - petite allegro!)

 

I probably am over-analyzing (who me? ). The teacher even told us last night to be more 'confident' and just go for the feeling, which was better but I switched then to a 'regular' fourth prep, and manage to get around but not nicely... But I think you picked up on something - I feel like I can't 'feel' the turn from this preparation - like there's no momentum, rhythm, nothing! It's like trying to squeeze juice from wood.

[Hans]

I would make sure to not do an overly large 4th position in preparation for pirouettes en dehors, especially on pointe. Keeping the back knee straight is supposed to force you to put all your weight on your front leg, but if the 4th is too large, that won't happen. My teachers at SAB would actually have us raise the back leg off the ground to ensure the weight was entirely on the front leg, then replace the back leg without shifting the weight back.

 

The torso was placed very far forward, with one arm reaching forward in 1st allongé and the other placed rather far behind 2nd, also allongé (similar to the Vaganova 3rd arabesque, but more exaggerated). The body would be...I almost want to say twisted in opposition to the legs, but not quite. The idea was that from this almost twisted position, you snapped into "pirouette position" very quickly, and the force from that would take you around in the pirouette. (I hope that makes sense--it's a difficult to explain in writing.)

[ami1436]

Thanks Hans. I'm not doing these en pointe yet, as I'm trying to re-establish my stamina first. They aren't 'strict' Balanchine teachers, so there's no twisting, and no arms 'left behind'. (I do think I probably start most of my en dehors turns with allonge arms though... just realized that... ) I don't remember the twist-i-ness that you are describing from my youth either - I remember very clearly needing to be square. Regardless, I'll pay special attention to the size of my fourth and the placement of my weight - I am most definitely not as far forward as I would be to go into an en dedans. I'm still just so confused about the impetus for the turn though, especially if there isn't that torso tension you speak of. Funny that this used to seem completely natural!

[lampwick]

Ami,

I can't turn very well in slippers at all, but for some reason they're better en pointe.

 

I think that the friction plays a role here:)

 

I would concentrate more on getting a good plie. Whenever my turns are "off" I realize I'm stiffening up my knees and not allowing a good plie for the prep.

[olddude]

...

I would concentrate more on getting a good plie. Whenever my turns are "off" I realize I'm stiffening up my knees and not allowing a good plie for the prep.

I'm still working on making this a habit, but more than a year ago I realized that unless the pirouette follows the preparation immediately, a quick drop to deeper plie at the start of actual turning helps me. If you are paying attention to the prep, the turn can get disconnected from the prep. And at least for me it works much better if they are a single movement.

[ami1436]

I get you lampwick - but I feel like the plie from a regular fourth is inherently different than the lunged fourth prep for a Balanchine en dehors pirouette. I can get up fine - to balance - but the impetus of the turn is difficult to locate at the moment. My regular pirouettes from fourth are relatively okay (and the relatively is relative depending on the day and mood!) if just a bit shaky when I return to them after trying the Balanchine ones for a while.

[MJ]

Ami,

I can't turn very well in slippers at all, but for some reason they're better en pointe.

 

I think that the friction plays a role here:)

 

I would concentrate more on getting a good plie. Whenever my turns are "off" I realize I'm stiffening up my knees and not allowing a good plie for the prep.

 

Friction is huge factor in pirouettes. Toe shoes are satin, which is slippery, you should be able to do 2-3 times more turns in toe shoes. Half of the friction comes from the floor, rosin, humidity, dirt, or simply sticky marley can make it nigh impossible to turn.

 

Canvas technique shoes are better than leather shoes for turning, the small holes in the Canvas prevent the suction cup effect and allow a little air to get between the sole and the floor.