Turns on pointe

[skip]

Hi all!

 

I hope that there is someone that can help me with some advice.

 

Introduction:

When I was 17 (2001), I started to learn turns on pointe. After being afraid for the first few turns, I did them spontaniously the next day in class. Next year, I was turning doubles endehors and felt fine about it. At the age of 19, I took a little more than a year off ballet, due to being abroad. At the end of that year, I had surgery on my left ankle for FHL. That surgery went well and I recovered nice and quickly and returned back to ballet.

I again did turns on pointe, however, couldn't do doubles anymore. After that year, I took another year off, this time due to financial reasons.

Started back (2005) with another teacher (daughter of my former teacher). Didn't do complicated pointework in the beginning, also because I did loose a lot of strength. So, I first worked on getting my strength back. However, winter 2007, I landed a pirouette (on flat) wrong and bruised my femur-bone (didn't even know that that was possible!) and got a little fear of landing my turns in fourth croisé with back leg stretched.

Last year, we started doing more complicated things on pointe again and I started to do some turns again, with some fear, but I managed to finish them.

This year, I hardly did complicated pointework and yesterday we were moving on to turns and here comes my question.

 

First of all, I need to sow my new pointeshoes, but I don't know where to get the time out of the 24 hours that are in a day! I suffer a chronic time-shortness . So, until those are ready (hopefully next week, since I will be travelling by train to my parents), I'm using old pointeshoes that I can still dance on (there not dead yet...), but are not as 'comfortable' as they were when they were newer (as far as pointes can be comfy!!).

 

So, after doing some balances, we were trying to do turns. My balances were fine on one leg, the other leg was not totally there yet and I kept doing balances instead of turning. Then we went to the barre and do 3/4-turns finishing facing the barre. I could get nicely up my pointes with the relevé in pirouette position, but as soon as we had to turn, I hesitate and can't get totally on my pointe (this was on both feet).

 

Could it possibly be that as someone gets older (I'm 24 now), you develop fear for things like this (after being injured a couple of times)? And if it's the fear....is there any possible way to get rid of this fear? I really want to get rid of it! The way I executed the exercises yesterday really frustrated me, also because I know that I was able to do it in the past and I know what it feels like.....and then I see the younger students in my class just doing it!

 

(I have to admit that my slip of Thursday didn't help yesterday. I had this stupid action of me in the local sports centre. I walked down a stair of 2 steps and slipped and landed quite hard on the step and then on the ground.....ouch!)

 

I hope that you may have some tips for me!

 

~SKIP~

[dancepig]

Oh yea, there's a big fear factor when en pointe (and sometimes even on flat) that gets more apparent as you get older. You're not alone in this. But hey - at least you're not 50! And, you have the experience from your previous pointe days. I would suggest you wait to do turns until you're in a pair of shoes that you feel confident in. In my opinion, confidence is a big part of the problem here. You really can't do a good turn without enough confidence to put enough energy into it. You should mention your issues with your teacher, he/she might have an idea as to what you can do, more than likely, you're teacher has seen this problem before.

[xSugarplum]

The only thing I can say is to let yourself fall. Splat on the ground if you need to, and realize that not EVERY fall is going to require surgery. If you try too hard to protect yourself, that's when you're going to mess up. When you give yourself the room to mess up, you will relax enough to actually do the steps correctly. No one does it perfect the first time, or perfect all the time. Many professional dancers also get injured; it happens. Allow yourself to do the best you can, and if it involves a few bruises....so be it. That's the learning process.

[skip]

Oh yea, there's a big fear factor when en pointe (and sometimes even on flat) that gets more apparent as you get older. You're not alone in this. But hey - at least you're not 50! And, you have the experience from your previous pointe days. I would suggest you wait to do turns until you're in a pair of shoes that you feel confident in. In my opinion, confidence is a big part of the problem here. You really can't do a good turn without enough confidence to put enough energy into it. You should mention your issues with your teacher, he/she might have an idea as to what you can do, more than likely, you're teacher has seen this problem before.

 

My teacher knows about the issues and knows about my problems with it (getting frustrated). She is really nice about this and tries to help me wherever she cans (let me do the turns on my own pace --> not forcing me to do singles when I'm still doing balances).

 

The only thing I can say is to let yourself fall. Splat on the ground if you need to, and realize that not EVERY fall is going to require surgery. If you try too hard to protect yourself, that's when you're going to mess up. When you give yourself the room to mess up, you will relax enough to actually do the steps correctly. No one does it perfect the first time, or perfect all the time. Many professional dancers also get injured; it happens. Allow yourself to do the best you can, and if it involves a few bruises....so be it. That's the learning process.

 

That's a bit of the problem. I don't want to fall. I've had the knee-injury 2 years ago with a too relaxed turn and landing and kind of fell. Besides, with my work, I can't afford to get injured (I'm a student-nurse and in my final half year before getting my degree), since that would delay my studies and that is more important at the moment (after 4 years of studies). And I need to be able to walk for the next coming xxx years!

 

Needless to say that my slip of Thursday kept me from working on Friday, because I could hardly work in the morning. In the afternoon it got better, so that's why I decided to sstill go to ballet!

 

If anyone else also has experience or advice, please share it!

 

~SKIP~

[dancepig]

Besides, with my work, I can't afford to get injured

And therein is the difference between a young ballet student and an adult ballet student

 

I think you need to focus on your breathing, and your spotting, nothing else. This will help to relax you enough to make the turn and not focus on the "what if". You might also try making 1/2 turns then balance, then another 1/2 then balance. You have the ability, you just need to get the confidence back.

[Mazenderan]

I remember reading a section on adult pointe students in 'The Pointe Book', in which the teacher said that adults are less likely to injure themselves in pointe class than younger dancers - simply because they tend to be much more cautious and subsequently do not put the same amount of energy and force into their movements. I think adults trying any sort of activity tend not to have the 'indestructible' mindset that children and teens have.

 

You've said that your teacher already knows about the situation; do you trust her enough as a teacher to accept her call on whether you are able/unable to pull off the turn?

[tangerinetwist]

I am a teacher and will be 40 in a few months. I still teach all my pointe classes on pointe. However, there are things that I have stopped doing because your body changes as you age, and as you said, I too, could not afford to be injured for professsional reasons I have had two children, and despite attaining the same numbers on the scale as before my first child, things are NOT in the same place. While teaching, I only demonstrate single pirouettes. I no longer do fouettes at all. If you are not aspiring to dance professionally, I do not think that it is worth wasting energy and frustration on technical skills. Why not use that energy to dance with more passion and expansiveness in your movement? Margot Fonteyn was one of the most revered dancers of the 20th century, yet she was not known for her skillful tricks- she was an artist known for "how" she danced, not by many pirouettes she did(Anna Pavlova as well, never achieved the 32 fouettes so famously known for making "ballerina" status).

[xSugarplum]

This may not be a very positive attitude from me and if that's the case please feel free to ignore my response, but when I read that you are afraid of turning on pointe, afraid of falling, and that you can't afford to injure yourself (all of which I understand), my first (and second, and third..) instinct was to reply saying that perhaps you should not turn on pointe, then. Is there anything wrong with just doing pointe at the barre? It's a much safer way to enjoy the strengthening qualities of pointe work. The reality of it is that anyone can get injured dancing at anytime, but of course pointe work magnifies that likeliness. If you are afraid and try to force it, you're only more likely to get injured because you won't let yourself just "do it". You said the fall came after an overly relaxed attempt...but truth is, it was just an accident. It happens. You still need to be relaxed when you turn, you can't be scared of it because that's when injuries are more likely to happen. So if right now you're at the phase where you cannot get over your fear, then the best thing might be to avoid it altogether and move onto other things you enjoy. Since you seem to be aiming yourself towards a career that is not classical ballet related, your dancing days won't end just because you don't turn on pointe. If you cannot afford taking the risk to get injured right now then there is no reason to put yourself back in the same situation that injured you the first time around, IMHO.

Edited January 12, 2009 by xSugarplum

[Mel Johnson]

xSugarplum, which category are you in? Adult Ballet Students' forum is for those over 22 and usually not tracking vocationally. Young Dancers 17-22 is for that age group, and either tracking vocationally, or at a university level, or both.

[skip]

Besides, with my work, I can't afford to get injured

And therein is the difference between a young ballet student and an adult ballet student

 

I think you need to focus on your breathing, and your spotting, nothing else. This will help to relax you enough to make the turn and not focus on the "what if". You might also try making 1/2 turns then balance, then another 1/2 then balance. You have the ability, you just need to get the confidence back.

Thanks for your kind words. you covered the point exactly, that I need to get the confidence back....I will try it next week in class with the half turns. My teacher generally is ok with me if I modify exercises, for jumps to make things harder and I guess she will be okay with modyfying it for pointe to make me more confident! (not going to class with pointe this week due to going to the musical 'Joseph and the amazing technicolor dreamcoat)

 

 

I remember reading a section on adult pointe students in 'The Pointe Book', in which the teacher said that adults are less likely to injure themselves in pointe class than younger dancers - simply because they tend to be much more cautious and subsequently do not put the same amount of energy and force into their movements. I think adults trying any sort of activity tend not to have the 'indestructible' mindset that children and teens have.

 

You've said that your teacher already knows about the situation; do you trust her enough as a teacher to accept her call on whether you are able/unable to pull off the turn?

I do trust my teacher very well. If she sees that I can pull of the turn and tells me this, I trust her on this opinion. However, last Friday, I could see that she wasn't sure about it and therefore didn't push me. She also sees when I get frustrated, which I usually show only in my face and not in the dancing and knows where my limit is and intervenes before my frustration gets out of hand (I can very well control it, but I'm kind of a perfectionist and this doesn't help on this matter! So out of protection, she intervenes if I didn't do that myself already.) (I hope this makes sense.....kind of hard at the moment for me to describe it in English!)

 

 

I am a teacher and will be 40 in a few months. I still teach all my pointe classes on pointe. However, there are things that I have stopped doing because your body changes as you age, and as you said, I too, could not afford to be injured for professsional reasons I have had two children, and despite attaining the same numbers on the scale as before my first child, things are NOT in the same place. While teaching, I only demonstrate single pirouettes. I no longer do fouettes at all. If you are not aspiring to dance professionally, I do not think that it is worth wasting energy and frustration on technical skills. Why not use that energy to dance with more passion and expansiveness in your movement? Margot Fonteyn was one of the most revered dancers of the 20th century, yet she was not known for her skillful tricks- she was an artist known for "how" she danced, not by many pirouettes she did(Anna Pavlova as well, never achieved the 32 fouettes so famously known for making "ballerina" status).

Tangerinetwist, I do not aspire to dance professionally anymore, however, I have a goal set. This goal is that I eventually take the RAD Adv. 2 exam and if I want to reach this goal, I have to be able to turn single, doubles and fouettes en pointe. However, I didn't set any years for this goal, I will see if I get to it or not and if so, I don't care if it will be in 2 years, in 5 years of in 10 years!

You said that you don't think it is worth wasting energy and frustration on technical skills, and in a way, I have to agree with you. However, since I have been able to do them and I want to make progress in ballet and learn more and more (again, I'm a perfectionist), I keep putting energy in the technical skills.

 

 

This may not be a very positive attitude from me and if that's the case please feel free to ignore my response, but when I read that you are afraid of turning on pointe, afraid of falling, and that you can't afford to injure yourself (all of which I understand), my first (and second, and third..) instinct was to reply saying that perhaps you should not turn on pointe, then. Is there anything wrong with just doing pointe at the barre? It's a much safer way to enjoy the strengthening qualities of pointe work. The reality of it is that anyone can get injured dancing at anytime, but of course pointe work magnifies that likeliness. If you are afraid and try to force it, you're only more likely to get injured because you won't let yourself just "do it". You said the fall came after an overly relaxed attempt...but truth is, it was just an accident. It happens. You still need to be relaxed when you turn, you can't be scared of it because that's when injuries are more likely to happen. So if right now you're at the phase where you cannot get over your fear, then the best thing might be to avoid it altogether and move onto other things you enjoy. Since you seem to be aiming yourself towards a career that is not classical ballet related, your dancing days won't end just because you don't turn on pointe. If you cannot afford taking the risk to get injured right now then there is no reason to put yourself back in the same situation that injured you the first time around, IMHO.

Sugarplum, the injury of 4 years ago was totally different and with the injury of 2 years ago, it was totally out of the blue. I was having a great class and no fear of my double turns (was aiming for triples that class). Yes, my landing was an accident, but did have a technical reason, I was too relaxed in my landing. That's one of the reasons I still have some fear for landing turns on that leg (in open fourth), but still do it. And since then, nothing went wrong.

As for your question if there is anything wrong with just doing pionte at the barre, IMHO, yes. I want to improve, that's what I come to balletclass for. It's not that I lack the strength, I lack the confidence. I'm perfectly able to do pointework in the centre without a problem, it's just the turning bit! (I also had this problem last year, but since September, didn't do a lot of more advanced pointework. However, last year, I had fear of turning on the spot, but was able to pull of my posé turns without a problem!).

If you cannot afford taking the risk to get injured right now then there is no reason to put yourself back in the same situation that injured you the first time around, IMHO.

I don't feel that this situation is the same situation as the situation when I got injured 2 years ago. I feel that these two situations can't be compared!

 

 

Moderators, do you maybe also have advice or insights for overcoming my apprehension/fear?

 

~SKIP~

[xSugarplum]

xSugarplum, which category are you in? Adult Ballet Students' forum is for those over 22 and usually not tracking vocationally. Young Dancers 17-22 is for that age group, and either tracking vocationally, or at a university level, or both.

 

I'm 21 so I figured it would be alright to post in both? If not, I'll go ahead and stick to the Young Dancers board. Please let me know, and sorry for the intrusion.

[Mel Johnson]

I think that it would be best to confine Young Dancers' 17-22 to those tracking vocationally, or toward a degree, and the Adult Students more or less toward recreational dancers.

[xSugarplum]

I think that it would be best to confine Young Dancers' 17-22 to those tracking vocationally, or toward a degree, and the Adult Students more or less toward recreational dancers.

 

Understood.

[Mel Johnson]

Adult Students' Buddy Board should be open to you, though, as that's really more chat and self-help. And of course Cross Talk is open to all, as is Pointe and anything else that doesn't have an audience indicated in its title or forum description on the first page.

[skip]

Uhm, I don't want to get across rude, but does anybody still have some ideas/insight in how to overcome my fear/apprehension? I was hoping that one of the mods has ideas that might help....

 

Please?

 

~SKIP~