Query i thought someone could help:-)??

[Louise*]

Hi

 

Ok Well i have always been able to do ballet splits (splits with turnout!) fully down with my hands off the ground , but i now have to do splits completely squared of with the knee behind tucked in if you know what i mean(gymnastic splits). I am nearly down just half an inch to an inch away but i wanted to know if people knew any exercises to loosen the hamstring glute area for this purpose. Or if anyone had any other ideas.

 

Another dancer suggested i go fully down in turnout splits and then sort of fix it but i have been finding it hard to get into the right position for that somehow.

 

Another person said doing side splits would help but i am already down in side splits with and without turnout so ermm i dont know??!!!!

 

 

If i keep with it i guess it will come i am only about half an inch off but it is annoying me:-)!!

 

Any exercises to help???

 

Strange thing is when i do down into front splits without turn out i dont feel a stretch but sort of a stiff feeling ?? Does that make sense?? Maybe i need to stretch out my hamstrings more ??? I particularly dont feel any stretch in my back leg at all which is weird when i am only half an inch off the ground and it is turned in so there should be more of a stretch??? So i dont understand why i am getting the sort of stiff feeling in the hamstring i know you use different muscles for gymnastic splits so maybe that is it?? So is there anything i can do to stretch these muscles ??? I am stretching before hand. But if you can suggest anything i would be very grateful:-) Maybe i need to lean back more or something i dont know to feel a stretch in my back leg?? I have only been doing these splits a little before that it was always turned out and i never really had to do much to get those splits really.

 

Any Ideas:-)????

 

Thank you so much in advance:-) To anyone who reads this and especially anyone who replies:-)

 

This forum is great for this stuff:-)!!

Edited January 28, 2009 by Louise*

[Clara 76]

Why do you "need" to do gymnastic splits? Are you taking gymnastics?

[Louise*]

Thanks for your reply Clara 76:-)

 

Well actually a dance teacher asked us to do them for flexibility :-) It is a contemporary dance class not classical. She used to be a gymnast also and she is including some gymnastic moves in the class she has us doing hand stands and walkovers after warm ups!!!!! She also give some gymnast exercises to strengthen hip flexors and stuff like that

 

I was worried i might over develop my upper body but she said you have to work really really hard to do that so i should not really worry about it.

 

She was the one who said to try to turn my behind leg in and under when i was down in ballet splits but i find it too awkward or something. She said it is harder to train your body to do something slightly differently after doing it one way for a long time compared to doing something new!

[Clara 76]

I see. So she is suggesting the turned in split for contemporary dance, then?

 

My only concern with doing splits in that manner in the fully developed body, is that there is intense pressure on the knees- something that few of us should be doing.

 

Perhaps you could tell her the problems you're having with that split, and see if she can suggest another stretch that might have the same effects, but not be as hard on your body?

[Louise*]

I think she is just suggesting it as an exercise for flexibility.

 

She says that she always did both types of split because they stretch different muscles.

 

I dont feel any pressure on my knees in it but i will watch for that thank you:-) I never feel any pain or anything though:-)

 

She gave me some exercises to help an doing them , i have only been doing this split for three weeks.

 

I think since i am so close without any pain i will continue but gently:-)

 

 

 

I do think this teacher is quite good though it is the same school i have always taken my classical classes from (they are a classical and contemporary dance company). And she takes a lot of their conditioning classes. Some of which i take as well. I dont think she would push me beyond what she felt i was capable of:-) She is very into physiology and the science behind dance.

 

I will be careful of my knees Clara:-) But since i am a very young adult i think i will be ok but thank you for your concern it is good to have someone to give that kind of advice:-)

 

She knows that i am about half an inch away from the ground in these splits both ways ( my good side is down a bit more) and that it is bit stuck at the moment but it is coming along slowly. I do them after doing ballet splits just to loosen up there.

 

I just thought i would ask if anyone could think of anything else:-)

 

It does not really feel HARD on my body per say just sort of using new muscles or something:-) I think it is helping my classical work though too as my leg extensions feel more freer and lighter since i started trying these splits compared to just doing ballet splits:-)

 

But you are right to say to be careful of my knees:-) I will continue carefully:-)

Thank you:-)

 

I think aswell since i cant remember doing ballet splits(I was quite young!) i might be expecting too much too fast maybe??!! I have only been trying for three weeks so i might be just impatient:-)

[Clara 76]

This website: Errors in Stretching, may help.

 

Not that I am completely on board with every word, because the author seems to be directing his comments towards sports and martial arts, but, points #4 and #5 are relevent to ballet.

[Mazenderan]

With regards to #5, how can you tell whether you are stretching the ligament or not?

[Clara 76]

Well, that is a good question....

 

I believe that's where careful training comes in- that second set of eyes watching to see what each student is doing. Essentially, going beyond your normal ROM is when we are getting into ligament territory. For each person, the ROM is going to be different, so it can't be judged by comparing oneself to a classmate. You have to really know your own body, and learn to recognize what is muscle "pain", and what is joint "pain".

 

There should be a feeling of muscles stretching, working, activating, and an associated uncomfortableness. Anything directly in any joint as far as pain, needs to be avoided.

 

I hope that helps a bit.....that's why I would hughly suggest talking to your teacher to gather her thoughts since she knows your body and what it's capable of.

[Louise*]

Well, that is a good question....

 

I believe that's where careful training comes in- that second set of eyes watching to see what each student is doing. Essentially, going beyond your normal ROM is when we are getting into ligament territory. For each person, the ROM is going to be different, so it can't be judged by comparing oneself to a classmate. You have to really know your own body, and learn to recognize what is muscle "pain", and what is joint "pain".

 

There should be a feeling of muscles stretching, working, activating, and an associated uncomfortableness. Anything directly in any joint as far as pain, needs to be avoided.

 

I hope that helps a bit.....that's why I would hughly suggest talking to your teacher to gather her thoughts since she knows your body and what it's capable of.

 

Oh thanks very much clara for all your help you are very good to go to all that trouble the errors on stretching is very helpful :-)

 

I have a class tomorrow so i will ask her then:-)

 

Incidently i can get down with my back leg turned in today but my front leg still turns out you would think it was simple just to roll the knee up but no not with my body i cant do it with still keeping my hips square!! It would make sense though that that muscle would be shorter since i have been doing them just with turnout only for a long time.

 

 

You are right though i am going to take this easy and slowly a little each day :-)

 

 

That site seems good :-)

 

I thing functional flexibility is something that is under trained in a lot of sports and dance disciplines:-)

[nycsylph]

Louise -

 

I'm not sure what split you're talking about. I've only taken ballet so .... ????

 

What do you mean your knee is tucked in behind you? You mean a pseudo-attitude position? Leg stretched full out without knee bend in front and then in back your leg is level with the ground but in attitude?

 

Is there a picture of it because I just don't know what it is you're trying to do.

[Clara 76]

I *think she's talking about gymnastics splits where the quads are touching the floor in the back leg (which is straight) meaning that the knee is pressed into the floor, and the front leg is also parallel with the knee facing the ceiling.

 

Splits of any kind are totally not necessary for ballet.

[nycsylph]

I *think she's talking about gymnastics splits where the quads are touching the floor in the back leg (which is straight) meaning that the knee is pressed into the floor, and the front leg is also parallel with the knee facing the ceiling.

 

Splits of any kind are totally not necessary for ballet.

 

 

Ah-ha!!! The case, she is solv-ed!!!!

 

Thank you for that!!

 

So basically, it's just a turned-in split as opposed to a turned-out one. Well, then. Alrighty then. Turned-in split, huh? I think the twist I (and some other girls in my ballet class) used to put on the basic split might help. Instructions:

 

Go into a ballet split - let's say left leg forward and right leg behind. Reach back and grab your right ankle with your right hand by turning your right leg "in" (facing straight down - no turn-out as that's what you're after) bend your right knee pulling your foot GENTLY towards your back by (you can arch your back if you like). You can balance yourself with your left hand if you like. Anyway, the act of turning your knee in and bringing your foot up in back while in a split stretches out your hamstring in the front leg and gives a powerful stretch to the quads/inner thigh in the back leg - which would be your right leg in this example. It's an uber stretch. Now, I used bring the foot all the way up - arch back and touch my head to my foot, but if I tried that now .... well, let's just say it wouldn't work anymore. However, I still do the front-half of this and go down in the split, reach around and bend my back leg, pull my foot up towards me GENTLY and just sit there stretching everything out. It actually feels good - IF your body is accepting of it.

 

Obviously, the further the knee is up in the back, the more stretch you get so you can adjust for what your body will tolerate and what is safe for it.

 

Hope this helps!!!

 

And in all things ... BE CAREFUL!!!! And kind. Hug your body today!!!

[Louise*]

I *think she's talking about gymnastics splits where the quads are touching the floor in the back leg (which is straight) meaning that the knee is pressed into the floor, and the front leg is also parallel with the knee facing the ceiling.

 

Splits of any kind are totally not necessary for ballet.

 

 

Ah-ha!!! The case, she is solv-ed!!!!

 

Thank you for that!!

 

So basically, it's just a turned-in split as opposed to a turned-out one. Well, then. Alrighty then. Turned-in split, huh? I think the twist I (and some other girls in my ballet class) used to put on the basic split might help. Instructions:

 

Go into a ballet split - let's say left leg forward and right leg behind. Reach back and grab your right ankle with your right hand by turning your right leg "in" (facing straight down - no turn-out as that's what you're after) bend your right knee pulling your foot GENTLY towards your back by (you can arch your back if you like). You can balance yourself with your left hand if you like. Anyway, the act of turning your knee in and bringing your foot up in back while in a split stretches out your hamstring in the front leg and gives a powerful stretch to the quads/inner thigh in the back leg - which would be your right leg in this example. It's an uber stretch. Now, I used bring the foot all the way up - arch back and touch my head to my foot, but if I tried that now .... well, let's just say it wouldn't work anymore. However, I still do the front-half of this and go down in the split, reach around and bend my back leg, pull my foot up towards me GENTLY and just sit there stretching everything out. It actually feels good - IF your body is accepting of it.

 

Obviously, the further the knee is up in the back, the more stretch you get so you can adjust for what your body will tolerate and what is safe for it.

 

Hope this helps!!!

 

And in all things ... BE CAREFUL!!!! And kind. Hug your body today!!!

 

 

 

Thanks so much guys:-)!! I am down turned in a squared off:-)!! Yep i was talking about gymnastic splits:-) The advice really helped:-)!!

 

And i am down in them:-)!! YAYNESS!! It actually feels much easier when you are actually down in them rather than nearly in them if you know what i mean its easier to relax the muscles and my hips are square:-)

 

I tried what you said:-) Now i can slide into them in a squared off turned in position from standing easily it was as if my body learnt how to hold it or something, it wasnt sore at all:-) I can put my head to my back toe like in a scorpion split ( i think that is what you are saying) i did not think it would help until i tried it:-) It kind of exaggerates the position and helps you sort of remember it in your muscles or something:-)

 

Thanks so much to everyone:-)!!

[nycsylph]

And i am down in them:-)!! YAYNESS!! It actually feels much easier when you are actually down in them rather than nearly in them if you know what i mean its easier to relax the muscles and my hips are square:-)

 

I tried what you said:-) Now i can slide into them in a squared off turned in position from standing easily it was as if my body learnt how to hold it or something, it wasnt sore at all:-) I can put my head to my back toe like in a scorpion split ( i think that is what you are saying) i did not think it would help until i tried it:-) It kind of exaggerates the position and helps you sort of remember it in your muscles or something:-)

 

Thanks so much to everyone:-)!!

 

You're welcome and WOO-HOO!!!

 

Yes, I do know what you mean about being down in the splits and almost down in something. When you're fully down you're relaxed and when you're not, it seems all your muscles are working AGAINST you going down!!!

 

And in terms of you getting your foot to your toe, I have really nothing to say!!!! I'm just in awe!!!!

[Louise*]

My head to my toe eh dont be it does not look very pretty lol!! A bit clumsy still:-)

 

yeah it is funny like that actually stretching the muscle out is fine it is working when you are trying to stretch it out that kills!

 

Thanks so much again:-)