Jump to content
Ballet Talk for Dancers

Hi battement lent and developpe my teacher loves em!AAH!


Louise*

Recommended Posts

Hey dudes:-)

 

 

I have just started with an Italian teacher and she does a lot of adage/ adagio work! I mean a lot!

 

She is lovely but tough on placement and really expects to see sweat.

 

Which is what i want really but i was just wondering if anyone could suggest exercises to build up strength and stamina for battement lent ( following the line of a grand battement only very slow repeated all directions etc) i thought mine were fine until she had us do them for what seemed like for ever! ( i exaggerate!) :-)

 

 

Also what position is it usual for a teacher to ask students to do these from for a intermediate to advanced class?

She is very into extensions! ( i am just moaning really!!)

 

 

Anything to help??

 

Sorry if i should have another thread for this?

 

 

Also by the way in the cechetti syllabus there are five arabesques ..but in the vagonova four am i right or am i making a mistake?? Erm i was always taught the main difference was foot position in relation to the height of the knee am i wrong??

 

Also erm how do you know for certain that even though a teacher tells you that she is teaching the cechetti method or the vagonova that they really are?? (sorry if that is a silly question!) I mean what would you notice as the main differences in a cechetti class and a vagonova class??BY THE WAY I WOULD JUST LIKE TO STATE I CONSIDER THEM BOTH TO BE FINE METHODS OF TRAINING SO DONT SHOOT ME:-)! My ballet teacher have mostly been of the cechetti school or at least that way influenced. Cechetti tends to concentrate mostly on placement and movement whereas vagonova concentrates mostly on positions? I know there are minor differences in some steps and style. I have heard cechetti teachers concentrate on extension a lot ( my own experience would confirm this in the past) or is this just my experience. I know technically you cant call yourself a vagonova teacher unless you went to the academy. But a lot of RAD stuff is a mix of the two??

 

I ask because in the near future i have been given the opportunity to study with a Russian teacher , i am concerned i will not have a clue how to adjust?? Am i worrying over nothing or am i right to be concerned? Now the teacher has seen me in a class so she knows what level i am at and she is happy with that but i am still concerned ??

 

Also in relation to my above question on battement lent and developpes , i have read some other people comments on battement lent and generally the opinion is that they are harder then developpe. Well for me it is not so simple i find that my developpe while it is higher it does not feel as comfortable as battement lent. If i try to explain it is as if with BL all you have to do is stretch your standing leg keep correct body placement and lift the working leg my hips just seem to stay perfectly placed. Whereas with the dev i used to have to work very hard to keep my hip from hiking. Now i have worked to correct it but still it seems that for me develope is a movement with a lot more working parts to it leaving more room for mistakes in alignment? Or am i mad??? Right now to look at i am very move improved and my form seems better but i find i really have to think about it. Actually that says it very well I FIND I HAVE TO THING ABOUT DEVELOPPE MORE THAN BATTEMENT LENT??? Does anyone else find this and what can be done??

 

Sorry for all the questions and sorry if they seem silly:-)

 

Thanks a lot:-)

Edited by Louise*
Link to comment

I'll only address your battement lent question and tell you what helps me. And it will also help in your developpes although I understand that you don't have any problems with it. It's just the tip works for both. It's this:

 

You start out mentioning hip placement and legs. Obviously, they're important, but in battement lents (and developpes) the upper body is also crucial and can mucho mucho take weight off your leg and help you lift it effortless. Everybody just usually concentrates on the legs and it's like hello! Your upper body can really aid you!!! Therefore, your supporting side should be super straight. Feel as if you're pushing in your supporting side from right under the armpit down to your ribs. Feel your the chest muscle of your supporting side also. This shoving in and activating this area helps tremendously. The real key is to push down on the lower ribs on the supporting side when you're lifting your leg. Just press them in the way you do for chaine turns or turns. The pushing in of your ribs in a turn gives you a faster spin as you probably already know. For the battement lent, if you're lifting your right leg, push down on your left lower rib and your leg just goes up there.

 

Another tip which you might already be doing is to "open" the non-supporting side. Again, if you're raising your right leg, you open under your armpit - at the top of your ribs. With you "opening" your side up, your leg can be raised more easily.

 

Also make sure you feel that pinkie toe when lifting!

Link to comment

I feel like I should have opened your post in another window to better answer your questions! Are you learning Vaganova? You said your teacher was Italian.. Vaganova is extremely popular in Italy. I think it's the most widespread form of ballet in Italy right now and I definitely discovered my love for the Vaganova stylings of ballet there. Normally, if you are more intermediate or advanced, we start developpes and lifts from 5th position. It is not completely uncommon to start a straight leg lift from 1st position, but it's usually done from 5th.

 

I do believe that Cechetti method has 5 arabesques.. some of which are even executed in a demi plié position. I'm not exactly sure, since I didn't study Cechetti. Vaganova has 4 arabesques.. you will know them from the most standout (and I think rather difficult) 4th arabesque. Fourth arabesque is done in croisé, the body slightly twisted to expose the back with one arm extended outwards and the other arm back in a diagonal line. The twisted and exposed back is signature!

 

Also, another distinction of Cechetti and Vaganova are the sur le cou de pied position during frappes/beats. In Cechetti, they want you to strike the ground. In Vaganova, it is not so common to strike the ground. Also, in the Cechetti method, the whole foot is completely in front for cou de pied avant, and vice versa for derriere. In the Russian method, the foot wraps around the ankle with only the heel in front of the ankle and the rest of the forefoot pointed and angled towards the back for cou de pied en avant/front. For derriere, the entire foot is behind the ankle, achille's part of the heel against the back of the supporting leg, foot pointed and angled outwards behind.

 

I have observed that Vaganova seems to use often the "allongée" motion of the arm. The Russian preparation before almost every barre exercise also includes a small allongée. Vaganova method ports de bras also moves every position of the arm through first position first.. for example, when you take your arms from 2nd to 5th, you don't just lift it up to 5th, you bring your arm back down, through 1st, then up to 5th.

 

Something also that is very different form not the Cechetti, but the Balanchine and Vaganova method is that Balanchine method will start a pirouette from a wide 4th position, straight leg in the back. Vaganova method starts a pirouette from a more natural 4th, plié in both knees.

 

When one starts a ronds de jambe en l'air in the Cechetti method, the working and lifting leg goes from a lifted tendu devant (front) en plié, then opens to 2nd. In the Vaganova method, our ronds de jambe en l'air lifts straight up from a tendu second.

 

There are so many differences! I wouldn't say any one style concentrates on placement more than any other style. In fact, all styles are very placement oriented and strict about adhering to their guidelines.. the placement methods may just not be similar. Anyway, sorry about the long response.. these are just some stand out things that can help you figure out what method of ballet you happen to be learning.

Link to comment

You start out mentioning hip placement and legs. Obviously, they're important, but in battement lents (and developpes) the upper body is also crucial and can mucho mucho take weight off your leg and help you lift it effortless. Everybody just usually concentrates on the legs and it's like hello! Your upper body can really aid you!!! Therefore, your supporting side should be super straight. Feel as if you're pushing in your supporting side from right under the armpit down to your ribs. Feel your the chest muscle of your supporting side also. This shoving in and activating this area helps tremendously. The real key is to push down on the lower ribs on the supporting side when you're lifting your leg. Just press them in the way you do for chaine turns or turns. The pushing in of your ribs in a turn gives you a faster spin as you probably already know. For the battement lent, if you're lifting your right leg, push down on your left lower rib and your leg just goes up there.

 

Another tip which you might already be doing is to "open" the non-supporting side. Again, if you're raising your right leg, you open under your armpit - at the top of your ribs. With you "opening" your side up, your leg can be raised more easily.

 

Also make sure you feel that pinkie toe when lifting!

 

You dont know how relevant to me that second last paragraph is to me my teacher is always getting me to open my upper body up on the working side i used to tend to tense in anticipation!! LOL:-)!!

 

Thanks so much for this:-) You have given me great tips:-)

 

I really appreciate it:-)

Link to comment

Thanks Nycsylph:-)

 

I did not know Vaganova was popular in Italy.

 

I thought since the teacher was Italian i would be probably studying the Italian method!

 

I did study Cecchetti before for a few years and all pirouettes were taken from a straight leg like and frappes we sort of swept the floor like a strike also when going onto pointe through releve we rolled up onto pointe sort of if you know what i mean. But now there is a little jump it is hard to describe and i am only going back to pointe slowly now so i have not done much and i could just be doing it wrong. But sometimes there is a pop up and sometimes we roll up?? I only ever went up through demi point before but now we do both?? I thought it was just getting harder or something.

 

But also things are called different things and certain steps are odd to me like pas de chat?? But then the arms look the same to me at time too!

 

 

I thought this was cechetti until the arabesque thing came up. Also i notice this teacher is pushing for greater extension in all directions. Also what you say about the back, I understand it is not just that she is pushing for a more flexible lover back but the twisted to also give the illusion of more flexibility and curve??

 

Maybe it is a mix?? Is that possible.

 

Because the placement is the same as before or as best i can remember whereas i thought maybe wrongly that the Vagonova had different placement of the hips or allowed for greater movement to allow for greater extension??? But my teacher keeps placement pretty much the same we just work it more so i thought maybe at first it was just more advanced Cechetti.

 

Actually it would be great if it was a mix because there was another teacher i was going to go to for vagonova.

 

I had always heard probably incorrectly that vaganova build up bigger muscles on the thighs ??? We do seem to concentrate on much higher extensions then i ever tried before although we do also concentrate on the lower slow work too and i know that slow work builds long lean muslces ( I HOPE!!:-)

 

I think i will ask my teacher just to be sure:-)

 

But i definitely recognise the the Russian back thing here that you said , we do seem to be doing that it is more curved instead of upright??? .

 

But i think i should just ask. She is really nice so hopefully i wont feel stupid asking hey what is it i am actually studying here?:-)!! LOL!!

Link to comment
Also, another distinction of Cechetti and Vaganova are the sur le cou de pied position during frappes/beats. In Cechetti, they want you to strike the ground. In Vaganova, it is not so common to strike the ground. Also, in the Cechetti method, the whole foot is completely in front for cou de pied avant, and vice versa for derriere. In the Russian method, the foot wraps around the ankle with only the heel in front of the ankle and the rest of the forefoot pointed and angled towards the back for cou de pied en avant/front. For derriere, the entire foot is behind the ankle, achille's part of the heel against the back of the supporting leg, foot pointed and angled outwards behind.

 

LaFilleSylphide, we should all be learning to do these steps both ways: there's not one right way. Adult students tend to go to classes which offer a mix of schools/syllabi, and we need to learn to adapt and treat combinations as choreography, rather than set ways of oing steps, according to one school or another. Each school has its style (often related to an historic national style), but in the end, good technique is good technique.

 

I have heard cechetti teachers concentrate on extension a lot ( my own experience would confirm this in the past) or is this just my experience. I know technically you cant call yourself a vagonova teacher unless you went to the academy. But a lot of RAD stuff is a mix of the two??

 

Louise, as I said just above, all styles or schools of training aim for the same thing. A Teacher Moderator might have more to say about this, but as an Adult student, I've been taught by teachers trained in most schools (currently most of my teachers are ex-Royal Ballet dancers and trained at the RBS) and the important thing is good technique! So all teachers will be looking for good alignment and placement, encouraging strength, flexibility and extension, and also educating us to adapt, pick up new choreography, and learn new steps with correct technique. I don't think RAD, Cecchetti, Vaganova, or any other school would argue with that!

Link to comment
LaFilleSylphide, we should all be learning to do these steps both ways: there's not one right way. Adult students tend to go to classes which offer a mix of schools/syllabi, and we need to learn to adapt and treat combinations as choreography, rather than set ways of oing steps, according to one school or another. Each school has its style (often related to an historic national style), but in the end, good technique is good technique.

 

 

Of course I never said that either way was the only one right way or not. Louise* simply asked what some distinctive differences between the two syllabi were and I was highlighting some trademarks from both. I personally prefer to study the Vaganova style because I like the aesthetic style of it and also the versions their variations are executed. Not only should an adult learn multiple ways of doing things, but also young people as the ability to adapt is extremely important when it comes to a career dancer.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...