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Ballet Talk for Dancers

Some Sort of ____________?


TemptressToo

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I'm a big gymnastics fan (both artistic and rhythmic), thus I give you the lovely Anna Bessonova.

 

I'm wondering about one of her leap series (beginning at 1:54 of her routine). Are these just grand jetes or is there a different name for this?

 

 

By ballerina standards, rhythmic is sloppy, but it is nice to see so many ballet elements and extension/control.

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Guest Matti18

Not sure, but I think in gymnastics they're just called split leaps. I think grande jete is specific to ballet in that it is the french term and leads from other jetes not present in gymnastics, also technique is probably different (not doing gym I am not certain, but I don't think they place as much emphasis on turnout etc...) But they are pretty similar :rolleyes:

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Coupé Jeté en Tournant

ABT

 

What makes them look so different is her complete over extension/oversplit

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Thanks so much! I wasn't sure if there was a different name due to the turning involved. I love how these look and would like to try and learn to do them (even with my limited flexibility).

 

Do you think lack of turnout an issue for rhythmic gymnasts? Or does their hyper-flexibility and physical build make that a non-issue?

 

This picture of Anna...her back leg definitely looks turned out to me.

 

Anna's Leaps

 

Admin's...if this should be moved to a more general area, please do so. :rolleyes: I've always been curious to compare the ballet form and technique to the sport side of things.

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Ballet does not require the freakish extension of limbs that RG does.

 

The things they do to little children's bodies in order to achieve those overstretches should be illegal, in my opinion. I can't imagine the future pain and joint replacements these girls will have to endure after their young (short) careers.

 

Be that as it may-

Correct rotation is required for Classical ballet and would be required to execute coupé jeté en tournant. I have no idea your level, but I can say that that particular allegro step would be considered an advanced movement.

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While one can appreciate the athleticism and the apparent telepathy between gymnast and hoop, I'm afraid I find both the still & the video of her version coupe jete en tournant to be downright ugly. The oversplit looks to me as though it's just lack of control.

 

Thanks for the reminder of the ABT video dictionary, Clara. Just before Christmas we were working on the coupe jete en tournant in grande allegro -- around in a circle combined with pique pirouettes and chaine turns. The difficult thing I found (apart from it being another exercise I have to overcome my new & irritating fear of falling!) was to make the distinction between the coupe turning and the leap out and forward of the jete -- the ABT dancer makes it look effortless, but I find it takes a lot of impulsion in the jete, and a lot of control in the turning coupe to keep that nice & controlled. Good to watch it done expertly!

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The hyper-stretching is disturbing to witness, I agree. You do have to have some natural leaning toward being physical able to train this way. For example, Alina Kabayeva of Russia was a naturally flexible child. Thus she excelled at this type of elite training. I also must say that it is a sport to commit yourself to just like any other sport...even by the very young. You only achieve greatness through many, many years of training.

 

Bessonova (Ukraine) is one of the more musical of the modern rhythmic group. Many of the present Russians are all freak-flex and not much else.

 

The "sport" has changed drastically. If you watch rhythmic routines from the 70's-80's you get more of a clean balletic look...flexible, but not freakishly so.

 

Artistic gymnastics, on the other hand, except for some rare exceptions has gone from very graceful and balletic in the 20's-60's to what we now have. I love watching some of the old greats on floor and the level of skill they had. Especially the former-Soviet block where girls were trained almost solely in ballet for years before they ever learned most gymnastics skills.

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I agree on the oversplit, yikes. Coupe jete entournant, once you get the rhythm and the direction right, is actually quite fun... although my legs aren't even approaching 180, let alone 245! ;)

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While I admire the co-ordination and flexibility of the gymnast in the video - is her extreme flexibility the reason that some parts of routine look - for want of a better description - a bit 'schlumpy' and untidy? Also, I'm not very knowledgeable about gymnastics - is it an accepted stylistic element to slam down on your heels like that? It looked quite exaggerated and deliberate.

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Whoa she looks like she's about to split in half. Still I'd love even a 5th of that it would improve my dance outta sight.

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I have a little girl who just started ballet this year after taking gymnastics. When she threw her leg up in grands battements it was freekish - round her ears and totally misplaced. Now that she is beginning to understand what I want from her and is placing her legs and turnout reasonably well, her legs have dropped by about 100 degrees, as she doesn't have the strength to hold them up placed correctly. Interesting.

 

What's also interesting is the comment that gymnastics has changed over the years into hyperextended positions, but it seems to me that at the same time ballet has morphed into semi gymnastic positions - probably to what gymnastics were like in the 60's/80's.

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Is her extreme flexibility the reason that some parts of routine look - for want of a better description - a bit 'schlumpy' and untidy? Also, I'm not very knowledgeable about gymnastics - is it an accepted stylistic element to slam down on your heels like that? It looked quite exaggerated and deliberate.

 

Most all modern rhythmic gymnasts looks untidy. I think perhaps this was a bad video example for Anna because she is usually more crisp. You may have noticed her two tosses where she catches the hoop down her body (letting the hoop drop around her) were messy. She often is precise there. There are a few acceptations to the modern gymnasts, like this Bulgarian junior...

 

 

Even 20 years ago, rhythmic was much more balletic and fluid...most of you will appreciate this video of the late Kostina.

 

 

Mazenderan, I wasn't quite sure what you meant by "slam down on your heels"...can you give me an example (what was the time on the video in minutes:seconds)?

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I see much more control and strength through the body in Oksana than I do in the other 2 girls. While I can appreciate the ball becoming a part of the gymnast, I find the body movements to be entirely too freakish for my taste. Belongs in a circus.

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While I can appreciate the ball becoming a part of the gymnast, I find the body movements to be entirely too freakish for my taste.

I couldn't agree more, Clara 76. I found myself watching that clip with grimace on my face from a permanent wince at the over-extension and the freakish positions...I can appreciate the dedication and hard work these athletes put in, but it does nothing for me in terms of aesthetics.

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Another "what is it" type of question.

 

Last night, Ms. Dorothy had us do these "things" across the floor. It was like prancing (like a horse) with the legs slightly bent in a front attitude...and I think the word "boy" was part of the whole name. I couldn't find any dance term with the word boy in it. We did them all the way across the floor springing foot-to-foot in a line bringing the leg up to the slight attitude position.

 

Any ideas? :innocent:

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